EY CFO Outlook: Powering Ireland’s future, with Paul Stapleton, CFO, ESB

George Deegan:

Welcome to the EY CFO podcast. In this series, we feature some of Ireland's leading CFOs, sharing interesting perspectives on a range of topics, from driving growth in their business to leading major finance transformation. I'm George Deegan, a partner and sponsor of EY's CFO program. In this episode, we welcome Paul Stapleton of ESB, Ireland's foremost energy company. a strong diversified utility operating right across the electricity market, as well as other related sectors including telecommunications, electric vehicle charging, home retrofits and much more. ESB are committed to providing clean, affordable and reliable energy. Jonathan, over to you.

Jonathan Healy:

Paul Stapleton of ESB, you're very welcome. Tell me a little bit about what you do right now within the group, because you are over the whole thing, really, which is a big organisation.

Paul Stapleton:

Well, my current role is Executive Director of Group Finance and Commercial, or CFO for short. It's probably the simpler model. So that role, I suppose, involves oversight of, I suppose, the financial position, managing the balance sheet of the group, managing our investment programme. allocating resources across our various business units and managing the treasury and tax functions within that and I suppose all the normal standards aspects of the CFO of a very large group.

Jonathan Healy:

It is a mission-critical organisation though because you know without the ESB we wouldn't have the lights on here and we wouldn't have a functioning marketplace in many ways. Did you ever anticipate that you'd end up in a role like this where, you know, a key part of the state's infrastructure, a part of it would be under your control?

Paul Stapleton:

I didn't anticipate I'd be CFO necessarily, but certainly when I joined ESB all of 33 years ago now, that was part of the attraction that I was so pivotal to our society and that everybody in society had a dependency on electricity and that ESB had a key role to play in delivering that. So that was part of the reason I suppose I was attracted to join ESB at the time and have enjoyed the 10 or 12 different roles I've played in ESB since then.

Jonathan Healy:

Let's go back to the very beginning. Was accountancy always on the cards? Was it something that you've had a passion for from when you were back in school?

Paul Stapleton:

Passion might be overstating it. I went to secondary school at the Christian Brothers in Tipperary town, even though I grew up in County Limerick. And I did accountancy as a subject that I was quite good at. And I suppose I enjoyed it maybe more than other subjects. And from that I decided to do a business degree. So I went to the University of Limerick and did a business degree there. And obviously that focused on the broader aspects of business. But the accountancy was the one that I suppose, again, I was more successful at and had an interest in. I probably wouldn't still claim to be a particularly passionate about accountancy, but it's that broader business and the impact that people involved in the finance side can have on the business really is where the passion is and that's what interests me.

Jonathan Healy:

We’ll call it accountancy plus for the want of a better expression. When you finished up in UL you had your degree and out you went. And you had to go up to companies and say, well, do you want me? Did you have much of a choice in where you went? Or were others looking to hire a young Paul Stapleton?

Paul Stapleton:

Well, this was back in the early 90s, so it wasn't the worst of times, but it wasn't the best of times either. The market was beginning to open up. I decided I wanted to pursue something in the accounting line, but not go into the audit side. So I didn't particularly pursue the big four or whatever were the equivalents then. So I did look at getting into industry. And I suppose the two that appealed to me are the two that I had options on at the time was ESB and Kerry Group, because I'd spent some work experience periods with Kerry Group. But ultimately, I think ESB were offering a clear, more structured graduate development program. And that's that along with, I suppose, that core impact on our society and the Irishness of it, I suppose, really was the reasons I chose ESB at the time.

Jonathan Healy:

Well, they're lamenting it now in Kerry Group, clearly, but it was a very different organisation back then. In the 1990s, I mean, it's probably not right to say it was bigger, but it was certainly more of a monolith, wasn't it?

Paul Stapleton:

Well, it was bigger in terms of numbers and in terms of people. But I suppose it was a very big, very different industry then. ESB back then was in a monopoly position. It was before the electricity industry was opened up to competition and deregulation and all that came with that. Being honest, it probably wasn't as efficient as it could have been back then, but it did have a very strong customer service and a real public service ethos, and I suppose it didn't really have a commercial mandate. I recall we would go on an annual basis to the minister of the time to agree what the price of electricity should be, and that ultimately determined what resources we had to invest in the system. So a really strong customer ethos, a really strong ethos of developing people but maybe not a strong commercial ethos and that's really what has developed hugely over the last 30 years or so.

Jonathan Healy:

The company underwent significant transformations. It started in the 90s because I mean up until that point, from the foundation of the state and the foundation of ESB, it had done the same thing. It had strung cables, electrification had happened, it was responsible for generating, it was responsible for issuing the bills and so on. But that changed a huge amount and it began just as you came in. How resistant was the organisation to change back then?

Paul Stapleton:

Well, I think it would be a little unfair to say it had done the same thing for the 80 years or so before that, because it had always evolved and responded to the needs, but within the mandate it had. And the mandate was as a monopoly service provider, an arm of government, essentially delivering an essential service to the people. So rural electrification was a huge achievement. The response to the oil crisis of the 70s and the development of Moneypoint Power Station and even the Turlough Hill pump storage facility, which is celebrating 50 years this year. So there was huge milestone achievements right throughout ESB's history, back from the original Ardnacrusha development back in 1927. But it was all in the context of a particular mandate and a particular industry structure. And that's really what changed from the 1990s, that the market was opened up to competition. ESB was given a commercial mandate to operate as a commercial semi-state company. but also facing competition for the first time. And that did require a huge change and huge structural change. And I suppose a lot of people left the organisation, maybe certainly a certain legacy or outdated plans closed. And it was a whole new world for ESB and I did see a lot of, I suppose, significant episodic major change agreements, which ultimately were about reducing headcount and embracing competition and modernising the organisation. And absolutely delivering efficiency. So it's a very different organisation today to the one I joined 33 years ago.

Jonathan Healy:

The big difference, this happened in other sectors as well, and PT&T that became Eircom, Telecom Eireann became Eircom, and the flotation there. The one thing that happened in that scenario, which I always think if we had our time over, was they sold the network as well. The network was privatised. That didn't happen with ESB and that gave you an opportunity then when you joined ESB Networks. What role did you fulfil there and what time of your career did that take up?

Paul Stapleton:

Well, I guess much of my early career was in finance roles in what we would now know as ESB Networks, but it wasn't called because it wasn't really operated as a separate division back then. But from the late 90s, early 90s, ESB Networks started to be unbundled and separated from the rest of the group as a standalone because it was operating as essentially a monopoly service provider to all players, both ESB's interests, but also the competitors who were entering the market. It had to operate separately. And in 2005, I became financial controller of that division, which was a very large division. And that was a time when I suppose it was the Celtic Tiger era. We were connecting over 100,000 new homes per annum. So phenomenal level of scale and activity. And we were really ramping up the scale of investment in the network at that period. And also going through a lot of structural change because of that. separation from the parent and the compliance with the various EU regulations for unbundling that was coming down the tracks at that time.

Jonathan Healy:

There must have been tremendous pressure to do more. Because, you know, we think of all the houses that were built at that time, it was primarily a housing crash that followed, but you still had industry that was expanding, you had up until 2007, 2008, the Irish economy was rock and roll. Did that bring a different kind of pressure to you in that financial role?

Paul Stapleton:

There certainly was huge growth and expansion and huge pressure to keep the economy powered. But I think ESB networks responded really well to the challenges in that era. And we resourced up, we engaged contractors maybe for the first time on a significant scale, and we delivered, I suppose, a major renewal of the investment of the network during that decade, as well as connecting all of those maybe probably half a million customers over the course of a seven or eight year period. But it was done within the context of a regulatory model, which for the first time gave us a bit more security and certainty on revenue. We weren't going year by year to the government to do a growth increase. Exactly. So the model had evolved and we were responding to that. But a very exciting time to be in ESB Networks. And I suppose it's 20 years later, it's an equally exciting time now because of the challenges ahead in that business also.

Jonathan Healy:

We'll get to the green transition in just a minute. But to borrow a political phrase, we all partied. And in 2007, 2008, the crash happened. What impact did that have on the organization? Because the lights had to stay on, even when the economy was tanking. people still look to you to say will we still have electricity in the morning?

Paul Stapleton:

Absolutely and the lights did stay on. I suppose the probably the most, well the first impact for on ESB and ESB networks at the time was the slowdown in building and house building probably went from 100,000 to zero overnight or close to it. So we had to pivot away from that and redeploy resources and other capital programs But then in 2010 and 2011 was probably the most severe impact when you had the sovereign debt crisis. And Ireland, ultimately the markets were closed to Ireland…

Jonathan Healy:

… Well, you were treasurer at that time, weren't you?

Paul Stapleton:

I had just moved into treasury then from 2011. And I remember, I think it was July 2011, we were over in the States meeting investors on a fundraising exercise to engage with debt investors. And while we were there, Moody's downgraded Ireland to junk. So if the Irish state couldn't borrow, an Irish state-owned company couldn't borrow either. So we were effectively out of the market. So we came home from the States with our tail between our legs and we came back and revisited our plans. I suppose we had to give a priority to protecting liquidity and making sure we could sustain our commodity trading, buying enough fuel to keep the lights on. So we curtailed capital investment for a period. We also, I suppose, leveraged our relationship banks because if we couldn't borrow from the debt capital markets, we were able to borrow short-term from the banks who had been long-term partners of us.

Jonathan Healy:

But it wasn't the model that should have applied. I mean, this was a perpetual crisis, wasn't it?

Paul Stapleton:

Well, it was a crisis, I suppose. It lasted probably 18 months or so. We were back in the markets by the end of 2012. But I suppose we brought a certain amount of innovation in terms of how we raised finance. We explored some new options. I remember we securitized the coal that was in stock to support the plant in Moneypoint. We raised finance on the back of that, which was something we wouldn't have done previously. So what needs must, and we brought a degree of innovation and I suppose leveraging our relationships and curtailing capital investment for a period. You know, we made sure we protected enough liquidity to stay through that and come out the other side of it.

Jonathan Healy:

Like the country, the ESB survived the crash and then there were other changes. It never stops and we had deregulation in the market and Electric Ireland came about and Electric Ireland have been there for a while competing with others in the market. When did you join Electric Ireland and what role?

Paul Stapleton:

Having been in the treasury role for about four years, I had the opportunity to move to Electric Ireland in 2014 as general manager. So that was the first significant role I had outside of the finance area.

Jonathan Healy:

And the problem with that is that you end up front of house, don't you? That previously if you were in finance there was always someone else who would go out and do the interviews or be the face of the organisation. How comfortable a transition was that for a young lad who was interested in accountancy and temporarily ended up in the ESB?

Paul Stapleton:

Well, it was a very different role, but funny enough, in the treasury space, which I had been doing for a number of years, you are very much front of house as well because you're setting the story of ESB externally to investors and rating agencies and banks and so on. But this was a very different context now and front of house on a large consumer facing business. But I'd say it didn't come naturally to me but I certainly enjoyed the experience and it really gave me an appreciation of the importance of developing and investing in a really strong brand and making sure you have a business offering that backs that up and a customer experience that backs that up. It gave me an experience, I suppose an appreciation of the importance of marketing and you know the really excellent people we have in ESB in that space.

Jonathan Healy:

History doesn't keep customers. You have to evolve to the customer's needs. Was that something that was very important to you in that role that you needed to respond to the market on both sides from having to buy it and having to sell it?

Paul Stapleton:

Yeah, absolutely, because we were, Electric Ireland essentially was a brand new brand. We had, we were no longer trading as ESB. We weren't people, even though people, I suppose, in their minds still think about ESB as electricity supplier, Electric Ireland was the new name on the block, the new name on the bill. And we had to build that whole experience and I suppose develop that from scratch almost. So look, it was a very interesting time. You're managing risk on the one hand because Electric Ireland is buying power and the wholesale markets and gas and selling it on to customers. Energy retail is a tight margin business. So you have to manage your costs of service very tightly. You have to manage your trading and risk position and you have to, I suppose, invest in a brand. and make sure you give a really positive experience to customers. And, you know, the market was ever-evolving at the time we introduced, I suppose, for the first time, enduring discounts for loyalty, because really the market up to that was operating on the basis that you were awarded for switching. We pivoted away from that and brought in enduring discounts and rewarded people for staying with us. And that still prevails today. So it was an interesting and really enjoyable experience.

Jonathan Healy:

Back in 2010 the ESB made, I think it was its largest ever, acquisition with NIE in Northern Ireland Electricity. It was a big risk at the time, we know the challenges that the company faced, but then you ended up working in the North and heading up NIE. What was that experience like?

Paul Stapleton:

Yeah, well, I had been involved in the acquisition team back in 2010, and I think the opportunity for ESB to acquire the Northern Ireland Electricity Network was a really strategically important one for the group, because for the first time we were able to align all of the electricity networks on the island of Ireland. And it was in the context of an all-island wholesale electricity market, which had been in place since earlier that decade. So the opportunity to bring the two networks businesses on the island under the same ownership and ultimately align them better was a really strategically important one for ESB. So even though the timing wasn't perfect in the context of where the financial markets were at and the crash, it certainly made sense and it has proved to be a very profitable and valuable acquisition for ESB. But in 2018, yes, I got the opportunity to go up to Belfast in Northern Ireland as Managing Director of NIE Networks, sort of running the networks business in Northern Ireland. And I was there for four very, very interesting and enjoyable years.

Jonathan Healy:

It's a different place. And I don't mean that in a bad way. For someone who's used to working in ESB, I'd imagine it was a different place as well. How did they take to a Limerick Man?

Paul Stapleton:

It is a different place, and even though it's only 100 miles up the road from us here in Dublin, it's very culturally quite different in lots of ways. Some ways, from some respects, it's the very same, but it is quite a different dynamic. I will say I got a very warm welcome. I really enjoyed and had a very positive experience with the people up there. They're really resilient people in Northern Ireland, really good work ethic and a focus on getting things done and delivering. If they make a commitment to deliver something, it generally gets done. But, you know, I have great respect for people who run large businesses and successfully in Northern Ireland, like NIE Networks, because they're operating in a I suppose, an uncertain governance environment with the political instability that prevails from time to time. Thankfully, things are on track at the moment and hopefully that stays the case. But for most of the period that I was there, we didn't have a functioning executive who could take forward policy. And then we had the added complexity of the COVID pandemic on top of that. So it was certainly A challenging period in many respects but a very enjoyable experience and a really developmental experience as well. I certainly would recommend it to anybody who had that opportunity.

Jonathan Healy:

I want to talk about the biggest change that the organisation will have undergone since it was founded and that's the green change in just a minute.

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Jonathan Healy:

Paul Stapleton, is every decision that's taken now in the ESB coloured green.

Paul Stapleton:

Well, certainly every decision is looked at from that green sustainability perspective. Our core purpose now, as we've defined it, is to deliver net zero carbon energy for Ireland by 2040. And that's only 16 years away. And that's the core of our strategy and purpose. But in looking at things through a sustainability lens, we also have to have an eye on affordability. We have to make sure, insofar as we can, that energy remains affordable for people and for the economy and the competitiveness of the economy. And we also have to have an eye on reliability, so we have to keep the lights on. So while I suppose the sustainability perspective predominates in terms of how we look at decisions, it is also very much balanced by affordability and reliability.

Jonathan Healy:

We know that we're missing targets, not just Ireland, but globally. The world is a warmer place and there is an urgency and a need about this. How do you balance that urgency with the need for that transition that it just can't happen overnight? There needs to be a more managed phase of the process.

Paul Stapleton:

Well certainly it is a transition and it is certainly in the energy sector you're dealing with long life assets. So we're making investment decisions now in assets that will be hopefully on the system for 40 or 50 years. So you can't replace a whole energy system overnight. As I said, we've set 2040 as a target. That's only 16 years away, which isn't very long in the life cycle of an energy system. But we're making huge progress. I think that's why there's a lot of frustration maybe at the pace of change. But equally, when you look back, we have made very significant progress. About 40% of the electricity in the system now on this island is coming from renewable sources. The government's target is to get that to 80% by 2030. We might not get to 80%, but we'll certainly get close enough to it. I think, you know, we continue to make huge progress as we invest further in wind, onshore and offshore. Solar technology is growing rapidly. We have over a gigawatt of solar now on the system in Ireland. And also other technologies that complement that, like energy storage and battery technologies, significant growth there as well. It's easy to be maybe a bit despondent and despair at the lack of progress, but I think we also have to reflect on the huge progress that we have made, and we certainly see a pathway to achieving this goal by 2040.

Jonathan Healy:

ESB is somewhat unique because in the century or so that it has been in existence, you know, it showed leadership with the construction of Ardnacrusha and other hydroelectric dams. It also showed leadership then through electrification and saying, no, you can have electricity in the furthest flung parts of the west of Ireland. We need that leadership again now. Will it come?

Paul Stapleton:

Well, I think ESB is showing leadership in that area. I think there's a huge role for government as well. And in fairness to the current government under Minister Ryan, we've seen very significant and substantial policy development that will chart the way forward over the next couple of decades. I think there's a huge economic opportunity as well. This isn't just a story about sustainability and saving the climate and the planet, as important as that is. As an economy, we are spending over 8 billion a year on fossil fuels, imported fossil fuels. That's 1 million for every hour. So by the end of this discussion, Jonathan, we'll have spent another million euros on imported fossil fuels in Ireland from when we started. And the opportunity we have, I suppose, is to displace all that imported fossil fuels with our own indigenous clean energy, harnessing the natural resources of the wind and the sun. And while that's going to take a huge amount of investment and is going to, I suppose, challenge people in terms of the infrastructure that we're going to need to build and, you know, the visual impact of that in some areas can be challenging. It is a huge economic opportunity for Ireland and ESB certainly intends to stay at the fore in terms of leading that transition.

Jonathan Healy:

If we go back to those historical precedents, ESB was the only show in town and now we have other players on the pitch, we have other suppliers, we have Eirgrid who are responsible for managing part of the network and we have you guys who are there responsible for generation and transmission. Is it harder to do all of it now because we have all of those different partners, if we could describe it as that? And, you know, if I was being critical, I'd say, well, you know, that's obviously going to slow things down.

Paul Stapleton:

Well, it's certainly a complex industry structure. And I suppose the industry structure we have is a result of the deregulation that has come from Europe over the last two or three decades and the drive for, I suppose, competition where possible. But I think it's fair to say the challenge is so big that no one entity could do it all on its own. So we do need the scale of capital that's going to need to be invested. We need private capital at the table as well. So a single state-owned utility like ESB could not do all of this on its own. So we're going to need all those partners, the third party, private investors and important generation on the retail side, air grid, as you said, have a critical role to play. But it all has to be within an overall policy framework determined by government and regulated by the energy regulator, CRU. And we're going to need other partners. Even a lot of the investments that ESB are making now is done in partnership with private players and other players, because we just wouldn't have the scale and the capacity to do it all ourselves. So I think it's necessary to have all those players in the industry to make this happen.

Jonathan Healy:

Let's talk about green bonds because I mean where the money comes from is significant. Every boardroom right now is paralysed by ESG. It's not a bad thing because that means their decisions will possibly be of benefit to organisations such as yours but how important will those green bonds be in creating this offshore opportunity for Ireland and solar opportunity and wherever else we may get our electricity from over the next few decades?

Paul Stapleton:

Well, I think certainly capital is going green. That's a definite trend that has been there for some years now. ESB has already issued three green bonds. Our most recent one was last October when we raised 500 million from green investors across Europe. Those funds will go to fund solar projects, wind, renewable wind farms, smart meters, batteries and so on, all the various different renewable technologies. So I think there's a definite trend of capital going green. We're maybe seeing some bumps on that road currently, particularly in the US. Maybe there's a slight negative sentiment towards the broader ESG agenda and green capital and some of the, I suppose, more sustainable funds are trading at a bit of a discount short term. But I don't think, I think that's only a short term phenomenon. I think longer term, the trend is clear and certainly in Europe and European policy is very much supportive of green finances and sustainable finance and the CSRD that you mentioned, the Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive, that's coming down the tracks, well, it's coming at us right now. We'll be reporting on that from 2025. That's going to provide a common framework from which investors can evaluate the companies that they're lending to and help inform their decisions. And I think that'll give further impetus to the drive for green capital.

Jonathan Healy:

Cards on the table. What will 2030 look like?

Paul Stapleton:

Well, I think 2030 is not an end in itself. 2030 is a key milestone on the journey to 2040 from our perspective. ESB currently has about 1.4 gigawatts of renewable or renewable enabling assets. By 2030, we aim to have that up to 5 gigawatts. That's about four times what we currently have. Now, that's a challenging and ambitious target, but if we don't get there, we'll get close enough to it. I think we'll see many, many more, maybe up to a million electric vehicles on the roads on this island by 2030. And that's not that far away. And that's a huge change. Even though, again, a slight short-term slowdown in that this year, I think that the underlying trend is very strong in that area. So we will be driving electric. I think we're seeing almost all new houses now are being heated by electricity with heat pumps. The transition of, I suppose, the existing housing stock and the retrofit of the existing housing stock is proving more challenging and slower, but I think we'll see really positive impetus in that by 2030 as well. Will we make 80% renewable electricity by 2030? We may not quite get to 80, but I think we'll be far advanced than where we currently are at 40%. We'll see a lot of progress and a lot of change by 2030, but it's a stepping stone on the way to ultimately 2040 and getting to net zero.

Jonathan Healy:

In the ESB, you've clearly benefited from the organisation. It was an apprenticeship of sorts, although it's not one where you're hanging out of a pole in a storm. The ESB, from my own experience of knowing people who worked with you in the organisation, It's one of the few places left where you can actually have a job for life. And that's not a bad thing. It's a job that you learn your trade with colleagues and they learn from you. What is so unique about it in that context?

Paul Stapleton:

Well, certainly I think ESB gives people the opportunity for a very long and interesting career within this sector. And it's a sector because it's so technical and requires such deep resilience. I think having a long-term career is a really important aspect of that. we rely on very deep knowledge of the plant and the assets that we're operating, whether it's on the generation side or the electricity network. And to keep that safe, to keep it resilient on a 24-7 basis requires a depth of corporate knowledge that people build up over long careers. So an employment model that I suppose engages and keeps people over the long term is really important for our sector. ESB specifically, I think, I've always had a very strong interest and focus on developing people and certainly I've benefited from that since I started with this organization over 30 years ago. And always keen to open up opportunities. So I've worked in about 10 different roles in my career in ESB. So the breadth and complexity of the organization and the ethos around moving people and giving people opportunities to do different things internally. allows people to, I suppose, experience the breadth and depth of the organisation. And so that's, I suppose, the opportunity to have to do so many different things and have very different careers all within the one organisation.

Jonathan Healy:

If there’s only one organisation in a market, the public tends not to like it. But ESB is somewhat unusual in that the brand in itself is still remarkably strong. You know, you still advertise, for example, even though you don't need to because the electricity is going to flow. But it's about connecting with the public. And every yellow van that drives around the country represents your organisation. And every yellow van that comes around the corner after a storm, knocks a cable, is welcomed like the flowers in spring. You could lose that. It's not beyond the realms of possibility, but you've not lost it in a century. What is it about the organisation?

Paul Stapleton:

Well, I think it's a really important part of what we do and that the resilience of the organisation and the resilience to respond to emergencies like storms or other severe weather events, like the COVID pandemic where we took the extra mile to keep the lights on, like the financial crisis we talked about. I think the Irish people have seen that ESB has that enduring resilience to respond. People see at first-hand what our frontline staff do in responding to storms, to see what people are doing to keep the lights on 24-7 and responding to all sorts of situations. And that's the lived on the ground experience of ESB, I think is really positive in that regard. And that really builds in support and sustains the brand. But I think also people are seeing ESB's commitment to be leaders on the energy transition and to drive towards net zero and make our contribution to Ireland in that space. So it's about supporting Ireland's economy, supporting Irish society, but also ultimately enabling the energy transition and decarbonizing our society. So they're all objectives and values I think that resonate with people and people buy into.

Jonathan Healy:

We're going to finish with a rapid-fire round, as we always do. So here we go. Apple or Android?

Paul Stakleton

Apple.

Jonathan Healy:

Books or e-reader?

Paul Stapleton:

I'd have to say neither really. I'm not an avid reader at all.

Jonathan Healy:

It's a spreadsheet, an Excel spreadsheet. Cash or contactless?

Paul Stapleton:

I'd like to be able to feel it, but I must say I'm a recent and late convert to contactless.

Jonathan Healy:

In terms of sports, GAA, soccer or rugby?

Paul Stapleton:

Hurling.

Jonathan Healy:

Hurling, as a limerick man you have to say that. What is the best advice you'd give to your 18 year old self?

Paul Stapleton:

I think take a little bit more risk and I suppose recognize that you can't do anything on your own. Everything you do is achieved through other people so that interest and focus on it's really about other people I think. The earlier you engage and connect with that in your career the better.

Jonathan Healy:

If you weren't a CFO, what do you think you'd be doing?

Paul Stapleton:

Well, I've certainly enjoyed two experiences in kind of general management, leading a business. So that's if I wasn't in the CFO seat, I'd probably be doing something in that respect.

Jonathan Healy:

And when you retire, what legacy do you feel or do you want to have left behind you?

Paul Stapleton:

Well, I'd say hopefully I feel I've had a positive impact on ESB and what it has delivered for Ireland and for the markets we operate in and in the UK as well. And hopefully had a positive impact on some people along the way.

Jonathan Healy:

Paul Stapleton, CFO of ESB. Thank you so much for joining us. And that's it for this episode of the EY CFO Outlook. Thank you so much for listening and we'll catch you on the next one.

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