Theo Yameogo: Welcome, Antoine. Thanks for joining me.
Antoine Mindjimba: Thanks a lot, Theo. I'm looking forward to the conversation.
Theo Yameogo: Let's get right into it. Antoine, as our go to for mining and metals culture evolution and DE&I in Canada, can you tell us about the trends in the sector?
Antoine Mindjimba: Well, that's a great question. I would say if you look at some data points, I think it was in 2019 that MiHR run a survey within the Canadian mining organizations. And we understood that on the top of their agenda was the people dimension of their operations. And what do we understand? We understand that close to 100,000 individuals will retire in the next 10 years.
So it means that a lot of people are going to retire from the industry and organizations will need to bring people. But in order to address that big gap in the workforce, mining organizations will have to tap into a broader pool of talent. So when we talk about DE&I, it's not only from a societal standpoint, it's understanding that organizations will have for the sake of their business being able to bring people with different background or diverse ways of thinking.
Theo Yameogo: That is a great snapshot of the sector view, Antoine. When we think about the Top 10 business risks and opportunities that we published not long ago around mining and metals, we did identify that talent and workforce, in particular workforce planning, is one of the greatest challenges that our clients are facing. Especially due to the retirements, the resignations that we've seen with COVID, but also the fact that we may need new talent. What are the specific challenges that you're talking to our clients about?
Antoine Mindjimba: Well, I think one of the key challenges is the industry itself. And what we mean by that is MiHR with its survey in 2019 has been able to uncover the fact that amongst the young workers, the industry is the least appealing. What do we mean by that is historically, it has not been perceived as an industry that is serving the greater good of society in terms of pollution, for instance.
And I know it's stereotyping, but that's kind of what the younger generation, the younger workers are all telling us. So that's one of the key things is how do you make that industry more appealing to connect with a broader pool of talent? The other thing also is historically, it has been dominated by white male. So what does that mean again, is its ability to attract a various pool of talent and a diverse workforce, it's going to be challenging.
So, I think these two things, how do we make that organization, that industry more appealing for a diverse pool of talent? And at the same time, how do you break the stereotypes from an environmental standpoint, but also from a pure DE&I standpoint, making sure that organizations and potential candidates will understand that, yes, it's stereotyping, but what's the work that we have to do to address these potential challenges?
Theo Yameogo: So when you're working with clients, what are the key solutions that you contemplate or actually execute with them to get to a proper outcome?
Antoine Mindjimba: That's a great question. And I think it's funny because we talk about inclusiveness or DE&I, but actually the problem or the challenge or the solutions are greater than that. Based on the challenge that I just mentioned, one of the key things is how do you define and create and develop and implement a culture that will be an inclusive culture that will serve the business imperatives of the organization or the industry at large.
So if you think that organizations that are successful are doing this, first you make sure that there is visible support at the leadership level. And when we say leadership level, it's at the board level, at the executive level, at the people manager level, making sure that we have a clear understanding of what do we mean by inclusive culture that will serve two purposes.
First one is creating an environment where people are going to unleash their full potential to serve the business imperatives, but at the same time making sure, because innovation is absolutely critical for the industry, making sure that innovation will be centric to the culture. So once you have the culture that is visibly supported by the leadership team, the board and the people managers, now you really need to think about what are the systems that we need to have in place to be able to attract and retain and help individuals flourish within the organization.
But also you have to think about innovation is absolutely key. So how do you enable more innovation within an organization? You have to have the centricity in terms of culture. It is absolutely critical for us to be innovative, to think innovation, but at the same time, by definition, innovation is thinking differently. And that's where you need — and of course the societal dimension and being more inclusive and more diverse it’s absolutely critical. But what is very interesting in the case of, specifically the mining industry, that you're going to need more innovation to be able to reduce costs, to extract a better price. And what do you need? You need people who can think differently, but they have to be able to feel that they belong, to feel that they can come up with crazy ideas, of course, that are going to be sorted and be translated into specific products or systems.
But I think that's really what we see with the organizations that are successful, are rethinking the way they have to define their culture, not only from an inclusiveness standpoint or for DE&I standpoint, really thinking at the top, what do we need? What are the behaviours that we need to see within the organization that will serve two purposes. First, enabling our business imperative, but at the same time being sufficiently innovation or technology centric to make sure that we can create that movement where people are going to feel sufficiently safe to come up with the ideas that will revolutionize, potentially, the industry.
Theo Yameogo: Now, some people talk about quotas. Do they actually work?
Antoine Mindjimba: Well, that's a very good question. So, quotas are interesting, but at the same time, there are two faces to the coin. The first one is it's always good to think in terms of numbers, but if you drive an inclusiveness or culture topic with numbers, well, it doesn't work. Why is that? It’s really easy to hire more women.
It's really easy to hire more First Nations. It's really easy to hire more Blacks. The thing is, do you have going back to my first point, do you have the environment that will really help them unleash their full potential? So, DE&I, or inclusive culture at large, you need to understand the metrics, but it cannot be driven by the numbers.
It has to be driven by inclusiveness. And diversity will be a ripple effect or a by-product of the desire to be more inclusive.
Theo Yameogo: Antoine, let's now talk about intergenerational dynamics. We know that in the sector we have retiring or retired people that have a tremendous amount of knowledge. Yes, it's in a different ecosystem, but they do have the knowledge. And then we have new entrants that have different views of the world. They may not have the knowledge, but they may have the different drives.
How do you advise clients on how to plan that intergenerational dynamics so that it can actually be beneficial for everyone?
Antoine Mindjimba: Well, that's a great question. I think there are a few things. And when we talk about DE&I, we're talking about diversity at large. It's not about culture, religion, sexual orientation. It's everything, socioeconomic background, age, generation, way of thinking and the concept of intersectionality. Who you are as an individual cannot be summarized into one specific characteristic.
So that's the first time in human history that we have five generations working together. And I think organizations are not fully equipped in terms of culture to really make sure that we have a growth mindset at all levels. And at the same time, we're willing to understand what the old generation can teach us, but also what the younger generation can bring to the table in terms of innovation, in terms of ability to adapt to a world that is changing on a permanent basis, but at the same time listening to experience. And I'm not sure or I'm convinced, I should say, that it's by amalgamating all of the above that an organization will be successful.
So what does that mean? It means that being more open-minded, thinking in terms of growth mindset. Whatever your age, whatever your socioeconomic background, thinking that you can always improve by listening and being open minded to new ideas wherever they are coming from, from experience and from younger generations is absolutely critical. So it's going back to what do we need as a culture within our organization to make sure that we can leverage all the strength that we have and having the opportunity to have five generations, folks that are 65 going to retirement and younger folks who are just coming out of college, they are 21 or 22 years old.
That's a blessing for organizations. If they put in place the right behaviours, meaning that, yes, I'm willing to listen to you, Antoine, you're 22 years old or yes, I'm willing to listen to your experience, Antoine, you're 55 years old, and at the same time making sure that all these elements are going to come together for the greater good of the organization and the society at large.
Theo Yameogo: Thanks so much for your time, Antoine! It's been a great conversation.
Antoine Mindjimba: Thanks a lot, Theo! It was a real pleasure.
