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How data is helping local governments turn response into prevention
In this episode of Innovation Unfolded, John Littlemore of Maidstone Borough Council, Alex Butler of Citizens Advice, and Helen Sunderland and Neil Sartorio from EY share insights with Tim Smith.
Innovation Unfolded is a Leading into Tomorrow miniseries exploring how innovation is sparked and embedded, and how focusing on a few key areas can unlock value across the public sector.
In this episode, Tim Smith leads a fascinating discussion on how innovating fast can help local governments in the UK to get upstream of citizen crises.
Connecting to unravel the topic are John Littlemore of Maidstone Borough Council, Alex Butler of Citizens Advice, and Helen Sunderland and Neil Sartorio, both from EY Local Public Services. The areas covered include the Council’s data-driven, early intervention approach to preventing homelessness; how Citizens Advice is increasing productivity; and the importance of trust when using data-driven technologies.
Key takeaways
- As local governments scale their adoption of technologies, they’ll need to take a human-led approach to make sure these innovations benefit everyone in society.
- Being transparent about why they’re collecting data, how they’re using it, and the fact that citizens can choose if they want to benefit, will build trust.
- Generative AI (GenAI) can help frontline employees make sense of the extensive information around benefits and spend more quality time with clients.
The podcast is available to listen to on Spotify, iTunes, Amazon Music and Podbean.
If you’d like to read more, a full text transcript of this podcast is also available.
Tim Smith
Hello and welcome to Innovation Unfolded, part of the Leading into Tomorrow podcast series from EY.Smith
We're coming to you from Innovation 2024, where government leaders from across the globe have been brought together to discuss the transformation of the public sector and its services.Smith
This is a two-day summit at ExCel in London featuring engaging keynote speeches and in-depth panel discussions from a range of professions and functions, aiming to foster the collaboration that innovation demands.Smith
Now, in this podcast series, we'll be joined by government and business leaders to hear how innovation is sparked and embedded, and how to unlock value across the public sector by focusing on a few key areas.Smith
In this episode, we're looking at how innovation can turn crisis into prevention. Joining me to talk about that is Helen Sunderland, EY UK&I Partner, Local Public Services. Hello, Helen, how are you?Helen Sunderland
Hi. Great to be here, thank you.Smith
Welcome to the podcast. Also with us, Neil Sartorio, EY UK&I Lead Partner, Local Public Services. Neil, hello.Neil Sartorio
Hello, Tim.Smith
Alex Butler, Executive Director for Digital Technology and Advice at Citizens Advice. Alex, welcome to the podcast.Alex Butler
Hello.Smith
And John Littlemore, Head of Housing, Environmental Health, Community Protection & Licensing at Maidstone Borough Council in Kent in the UK. John, good to see you. Thank you for joining us.John Littlemore
Hello, and thank you for the invitation.Smith
Now Helen, let me start with you. Many countries at the moment are facing a big cost-of-living crisis, impacting all kinds of things including, of course, local authorities’ budgets and requiring new, innovative solutions. How does the UK compare with other countries in respect of the pressure on public finances, which clearly there is in large quantities?Sunderland
Absolutely. I mean, I think the UK's cost-of-living crisis has been a pressing concern and I think there are a couple of areas that particularly exacerbate it. People are very familiar with inflation, rising prices. I think, you know, not only is that putting a strain on the public purse and the cost of providing services, but actually the money in people of the UK's pockets as well.Sunderland
Housing costs: We have a particularly unique challenge in terms of housing supply and the match that that has to demand, I think, again, further exacerbating over perhaps other countries around that.Sunderland
We've seen wage stagnation, energy prices, there's a number of other things that I think we're kind of familiar with. One of the things, and I suppose kind of the crux of your question, is some of the aspects of innovation that are being driven in the public sector and where and how that's impacting.Sunderland
I think the nature of our social security and benefits system — we have quite a large state — the policies that support that, I think, fabulously, are there to support people in crisis. What that does mean is if we don't get upstream of those crises, and we continue in the circumstances that I've just described, to let those crises exacerbate, the burden on the state is huge. So it's why it's so important to get upstream with different and innovative solutions.Smith
Okay. Alex, let me bring you into the conversation. Citizens Advice in the UK say 250 people every day could fall into negative budget without government intervention. What new approaches are there, do you think, to build financial resilience for individuals?Butler
So, you're right to highlight the real impact of the cost-of-living crisis in the UK, which Citizens Advice sees starkly every day. The number of clients that we're having to support is rising exponentially.Butler
And actually, funding is going down. So the need for us to be very innovative in the way that we're rising to that challenge is really important.Butler
Obviously, we're starting to look at the potential for new technologies such as AI [artificial intelligence] to support our work. Never to replace the really important work that our very human advisors do. That's a really important part, not just in terms of human in the loop, but also because that human relationship is really important.Butler
So, we've been running a number of initiatives looking at how we might do that, not least the way we use generative AI [GenAI] tools to support our advisors when they're in front of clients, to help make sense of the huge universe of information that they need to bring to bear in those conversations. And that's proving to be very successful.Smith
And what feedback, Alex, have you had from your people about their experiences of working with AI?Butler
Do you know, our advisors in local offices absolutely love this. Obviously, we went into it with a little — I think they would have said — a little bit of trepidation at first. It's new, but when they realize, you know, how much heavy lifting it does in the background and how much more quality time can be spent with people who most need it, it's been a winner.Smith
Now John, I understand that Maidstone Borough Council have implemented a new approach to predict and prevent homelessness before it starts. They're doing this by using technology, data and analytics. How exactly does that work?Littlemore
Well, I'm not going to go through the minutia of detail of what sits behind it, but basically, as we mentioned, there's a whole raft of data that we capture in terms of when we're assisting people from different organizations.Littlemore
The idea is about bringing together that information, looking at the characteristics that they share that will often mean that, in some time in the future, they may become homeless. Being able then to create alerts around that data so that we can get that chance, opportunity, to engage with people, to support them at a much earlier stage than when crisis occurs and therefore reduce the risk of them becoming homeless and having to be placed in temporary accommodation.Smith
Okay. And following on from that then John, to understand the impact of this data-driven preventative approach to homelessness. What are the before and after numbers in terms of the reduction in homelessness and cost savings?Littlemore
Yes, well, we were in a position after the first year to take an in-depth look at what the outcome had been, and it was really quite stark when we did that. I think if we looked at the first year, people that were assisted and supported by our officers, only 1.9% of those clients ended up going into temporary accommodation. That compared with nearly 20% of those households that weren't directly assisted through the program.Littlemore
We've reflected on that again and we looked at the data one year later just to make sure there was no anomaly there, and once again, it was quite meaningful, the data that we were able to extract. And we found that 98% of people who approached us and we assisted through this scheme, 98% were prevented from becoming homeless. That compares with our average outcomes of about just under 70%. So it is quite phenomenal.Smith
I was going to say, that's a high figure. You must be incredibly pleased with the results from this process.Littlemore
Absolutely. We're very pleased for the people, our residents. So it means that they don't have to go through the trauma of going into temporary accommodation nor the disruption that happens with that. But it's also been really pleasing for the staff because it's given them an opportunity to work in a different way. It gives them much more job satisfaction to be able to help people in this way.Smith
But following on from that, Helen, data ethics in a situation like this, obviously something of a concern. How can local public services deliver this with trust?Sunderland
I think, transparency, transparency, transparency. Fundamentally, an open conversation with residents about what you're doing and why with their data.Sunderland
So, I think, throughout the entire process, data governance is really important, like treating data with respect. Treating data as it should be legally, and very clearly demonstrating how you are doing that, is a really important part of that.Sunderland
The second bit is the purpose and being very, very clear on the purpose for which you're using people's data. And being very clear about the choice that people have in that. And equally the outcome and positive outcome that that can drive.Sunderland
There's another aspect to this which is: You're not looking to achieve a negative intervention as a result of this work. So there's a choice as to whether to engage with the council. It's an offer of support and intervention rather than a “you will comply.”Smith
You don’t have to take it up.Sunderland
Exactly. And I think that creates a huge shift in the dynamic. And I think, I guess the results speak for themselves. I was really taken, John, on stage earlier, when you said, not one, not one person has come forward and complained or been concerned about how the council is using their data.Sunderland
In fact, people thought that's how it was being done anyway, because it's one organization and connected. And yeah, so choice, transparency and being very respectful on security and following that through in the technology, I think, are the really key parts to this. There'll always be challenge but you know, being ready to face that openly, I think as well, and test ourselves.Smith
Okay. Well, let's look to the future now. Neil, what's next for the application of technology and analytics to help change local public services, would you say?Sartorio
I think we're riding already a massive wave of technological advancement that is going to be normalized in the hands of every single human being on this planet, let alone this country, and that is going to filter down to local authorities. So therefore, I think what's next is the scale-up of the adoption of all these technologies and the enthusiasm of adopting them into their day-to-day, either as their business model, the way they operate, the way they engage with each other.Sartorio
Now the challenge with that is there is no blueprint yet about how that actually comes together to deliver the right outcomes we need to see for society. So therefore, what should be next, beyond the adoption and the scale-up, is a really, really human-led, joined-up thought process about how we adopt and scale through the lens of what's right for society, and we deliberately, not accidentally, deploy this technology, so we have a betterment of society rather than just a more productive way of doing things, arguably quite suboptimally at the moment.Smith
So in terms of using that technology then, Neil, I mean, how hard is it to get trusted advice?Sartorio
It is hugely easy to get advice; let's call it information presented to you that you decide as a human being to take as advice. And humans aren't computers, right, so we will take in information and compute it ourselves in those things called, a brain, right?Sartorio
So you can get that information and you can compute it into advice. To get trusted advice, for me, is the new oil. It's the thing we need to mine. We need to create a world where we understand what's the kite mark that's coming with this information? What's behind it in terms of intent? And we need to be able to compute it, particularly for those people who find themselves in vulnerable positions, that are well meant and also can be well executed. Rather than just something an algorithm has told us is a plausible bit of advice based on what I've gone and scraped from the World Wide Web.Smith
So it's urgently needed then really, this innovation, and we've heard that from everybody on the podcast today. Does it need to be implemented quicker?Sartorio
So of course, we want to do this fast.Smith
But it's got to be done correctly.Sartorio
But doing it incorrectly, that could amplify already a very, very strained society in my opinion. So yes, let's do it fast, but get the right balance.Smith
And presumably, Alex, you would second that emotion?Butler
I absolutely do. And we see this, you know, every day at Citizens Advice. So we're doing some really interesting work with organizations like the Open Data Institute, looking at building those really solid data foundations that make sure that we're not seeing marginalized communities further marginalized by the rollout of this kind of technology. It's really, really important to think about how we're collecting data, how we're using it and how we're using it to really focus on the people who really need it.Smith
And following on from that John, from a technical perspective, what plans do you have to adapt services in Maidstone further?Littlemore
Well, the opportunities are there to be exploited, and what we're doing at the moment is delving deeper into particular characteristics around, perhaps, single males. We see a lot of single males come through as rough sleepers. If we can identify at an early stage, again, the characteristics that lead to somebody becoming street homeless, we can put in interventions.Littlemore
We're doing some really interesting work around damp and mold, looking at where people have respiratory disorders that might be aggravated by damp and mold. Also looking at accommodation that's more likely to be affected by damp and mold. If you can bring that data together and then intervene at an earlier stage, with better outcomes for people, better interventions and solutions, for us that's a much better outcome than if we just go round and serve a notice on the landlord.Smith
Okay. Well, that's it for this episode. Thanks very much to Helen, Neil, Alex and John for an engaging and indeed, I think, an enlightening conversation.Smith
Don't miss the rest of Innovation Unfolded, where we'll continue to unravel the art, and science, of innovating in the public sector.Smith
For now though, from me, Tim Smith, thanks for listening.End of podcast.
Podcast
Episode 03
Duration
0h 13m 13s
