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In this episode of the Tax and Law in Focus podcast, the speakers discuss necessary steps to ensure compliance, preparedness and success in 2024 and beyond in the BEPS era.
This episode of the EY Tax and Law in Focus podcast, hosted by Susannah Streeter, delves into the complexities of BEPS 2.0 and its implications for global taxation. Brian Foley, EY Global Tax Accounting and Risk Advisory Services Leader; Jason Yen, Tax Principal in the International Tax and Transaction Services Practice at Ernst & Young LLP; and Jay Wright, Partner, Tax Accounting and Risk Advisory Services Practice at Ernst & Young LLP discuss the monumental shift BEPS 2.0 represents in the global taxation landscape, particularly affecting multinationals with annual revenues exceeding €750 million. They explore the intricate technicalities of Pillar Two, emphasizing its role in establishing a global minimum tax rate of 15%.
The podcast highlights the challenges multinational enterprises (MNEs) face, including adapting their tax operations, data acquisition, and infrastructure in response to these changes. It underlines the importance of technology in smoothing this transition. The discussion also touches on the operational and compliance complexities, the role of accounting in navigating these changes, and the significance of keeping abreast with the evolving legislative landscape globally.
The guests provide insights into the strategic approaches companies must adopt, including re-evaluating corporate structures and transfer pricing decisions. They emphasize the necessity of proactive engagement with external auditors and the criticality of timely data analysis and documentation.
Key takeaways:
Global tax overhaul: BEPS 2.0 marks a transformative shift in international tax laws, establishing a new, unified tax framework that significantly impacts large MNEs.
Operational and compliance revamp: MNEs must undertake significant operational changes, focusing on tax operations, data management, and compliance processes while emphasizing robust process documentation and active coordination with auditors.
Navigating legislative flux: With the evolving landscape of BEPS 2.0, companies need to continuously adapt to diverse global legislative enactments and allocate resources efficiently to stay compliant and proactive.
Susannah Streeter
Hello. I'm Susannah Streeter, and welcome to the EY Tax and Law in Focus Podcast. 2024 is a big year for global taxation changes. More than 140 jurisdictions in the OECD inclusive framework agreed to a two-pillar solution to address challenges in international regimes. Pillar Two will apply to companies with €750 million, approximately $810 million or more in annual revenues, with an aim to achieve an effective global minimum tax rate of 15% in each jurisdiction. For those companies affected, getting ready for BEPS 2.0 is a pretty huge task, and it's crucial to get it right. In EY's 2023 tax risk and controversy survey, Pillar Two was cited as a major source of potential risk for MNEs. Technology will, of course, play an essential role in helping companies to transition smoothly. But significant tax operation evolution will be required for everything from modifying data acquisition and updating process infrastructure to implementing more robust controls. In this podcast, we're going to explore the challenges ahead and set out the steps needed to ensure compliance, optimization, and ultimately success in the BEPS 2.0 era and beyond. And I'm very delighted to say we will be joined by global subject matter experts to help guide you through the fog of complexity. But before I introduce them, please remember, conversations during this podcast should not be relied on as accounting, legal, investment, nor other professional advice. Listeners must, of course, consult their own advisors.
I'm very pleased to welcome Jason Yen, Tax Principal in the International Tax and Transaction Services Practice at Ernst & Young LLP. Jason, welcome. Where are you speaking to us today from?
Jason Yen
Hi, Susannah. Thanks for having me. I am in Atlanta today.
Streeter
Fantastic. Well, it's great to have you with us. Also, please welcome Brian Foley, EY's Global Tax Accounting and Risk Advisory Services Leader. Hello there, Brian. Where are you?
Brian Foley
Hello, Susannah. It's great to be with you. I am in Denver, Colorado today.
Streeter
Fantastic. Well, welcome to the podcast. And also welcome, Jay Wright, Tax Partner in the US National Tax Accounting and Risk Advisory Services Practice at Ernst & Young LLP.
Jay Wright
Hello, Susannah. Hey, Brian. Hey, Jason. Good to be with you guys again today. I am coming at you from New York City.
Streeter
Well, it's wonderful to have you all with me on the podcast today. So much to talk about. But let's first of all focus on the wider picture before we dive into the complexities, how would you describe the magnitude of BEPS 2.0 for the global taxation landscape? What impact are we going to see for MNEs with a revenue of €750 million or more? Jason, what's your take?
Yen
Yes, I think this is a complete sea change to the world of international taxation. It's the closest thing we've ever had to a true global tax, where there will be rules that are set by a global tax body that apply universally to basically all large multinational companies. I think about it a little bit like Lord of the Rings, that there's one ring to rule them all. Well, this is like a global tax that sits above all other country-by-country taxes, and will apply on top of all their existing corporate tax regimes that we currently face. So it's hard to undersell this. It is a completely new tax system of the likes that we have not seen.
Streeter
So one ring to rule them all. And Jason, to what extent do you think the increasingly digitalized economy and the digital delivery of products and services prompted this sea change?
Yen
I think it played a big role. Even though these new rules will apply to all companies, whether they're mostly digital companies or non-digital companies, the system and international tax architecture that we had for over a century was governed under a set of principles way before the digital economy. The new digital economy is what precipitated a lot of governments to decide that they needed to rethink how the existing international tax architecture work. And that allowed for the political space to decide to address issues that haven't been changed or modified or even talked about for such a very long time. I do think that like many of our daily lives that are being transformed by the digital economy, international tax is another one where we're going to see significant changes to all parts of the economy and the world of tax due to the change in the economy from digitalization.
Streeter
Yeah, so it certainly is a sea change. Let me bring you in, Jay. How do you think these recommendations will introduce substantial complexities into tax forecasting and reporting processes? Is it going to be a bit of a revolution?
Wright
It goes to how these rules will actually be administered. And under the proposed framework, there are really three administered levels. When you think about the way in which a top-up tax is to be determined, assessed, and essentially paid to a taxing authority. And the three charging mechanisms start with a qualified domestic minimum top-up tax, which is really a top-up tax that's assessed at the legal entity level. You then can be subject to the second charging mechanism, which starts with a parent in the MNE group or chart that sits above a subsidiary or legal entity that is subject to or has a low-income tax rate. And that second charging mechanism is referred to as the income inclusion rule, which enables that parent entity to essentially collect a top-up tax on a lower tier, low-taxed constituent entity. And then to the extent that the IR is not available for charging and assessing a top-up tax, a third ability comes into the structure by way of the under-tax profit role, the UTPR, which enables a subsidiary at the lowest level of the MNE group org chart to essentially go upstairs into the org chart to tax and collect top-up tax on other members of the org chart up and out. And so when you think about the pervasiveness and the complexities when considering the three prongs in which this low tax can be collected, it's important to consider how they interact with one another.
Streeter
Absolutely. So, given what Jay has outlined there, Brian, what implications would this have for corporate structuring and transfer pricing decisions?
Foley
Absolutely. And I would say that it's going to have very sweeping implications for corporate structuring as well as transfer pricing. Fundamentally, corporate structuring involving acquisitions, dispositions, internal restructurings, changes in business, all of those new conditions and circumstances traditionally have been subject to corporate tax and considerations for the existing regime. But with this new international tax, global minimum tax, that is overlaid above the domestic existing taxes, that means that companies are going to have to put a new filter or a new lens on all of their analysis, all of their diligence, all of their planning and strategies around the corporate structuring. Looking at acquisitions, they will have to take into account the implications of adding to existing jurisdictions or adding new jurisdictions to their structure. And that's going to have to be done real time within this new regime once the rules are effective. As it relates to transfer pricing, as Jay mentioned, the starting point fundamentally is book income on a separate entity basis. And as that book income is then aggregated into individual jurisdictions to assess against that 15 % minimum tax, that means that companies are going to have to really think long and hard about their operations and how they're actually applying transfer pricing on a contemporaneous basis. Sometimes transfer pricing is managed at a statutory level. But when group gap income is the starting point for the calculations, companies are going to have to be thoughtful on how they timely account for transfer pricing in all of their jurisdictions, all of their entities in more of a real-time basis.
Streeter
So there's an awful lot of analysis that needs to be done. I mentioned in my introduction that in EY's 2023 Tax Risk and Controversy Survey, Pillar Two was cited as a major source of potential risk for MNEs. Can you tell me more about that survey, Brian?
Foley
Certainly. This is a survey that we do on a repeated basis, and it has shown trend lines over years. One of the new trends is certainly the impact that Pillar Two is expected to have, and this global minimum tax is expected to have on the larger multinationals. All of which have acknowledged that whether or not top-up tax or additional tax liability is going to result, the administrative effects of simply complying with and reporting on filing tax returns related to the global minimum tax, will put additional strain and stress on already stretched budgets and resource bases within these largest companies. So it will introduce additional risk, it will introduce additional complexities. And companies are preparing now to try to figure out how best to deal with those risks, whether through the expectation of additional P&L tax, cash tax, or simply the compliance requirements of this new regime.
Streeter
Now, the OECD has no legal jurisdiction over its member nations. But countries who signed up are adopting recommendations under BEPS 2.0 Pillar Two as law. So Jason, what have we learned from their experience?
Yen
It's a great question. I mentioned earlier that this Pillar Two tax is like a global tax. And if you had a global tax, you would have a global tax authority, a global legislator, some global court to resolve disputes. Well, we have none of that because the OECD, as you mentioned, it does not have legal jurisdiction. So instead, all of these rules are being implemented piecemeal by countries. And for the most part, what we're seeing is that these countries are doing their absolute best to implement the rules consistently based on the model rules that the OECD put out. However, at the same time, we're seeing that there are differences, and in many cases, these differences are not perhaps intentional. But when you have a very complex set of rules that you're now translating into dozens of different languages and you're adapting them for local law, specific tax issues, they're going to see some differences, interpretive differences, whether intentional or not. And that's going to mean that eventually there's going to be disputes among countries over how to interpret these rules that may have all stemmed from the same set of model rules but have been implemented somewhat differently. So that's going to raise a lot of challenges, and we're already seeing these differences pop up as countries are implementing. The second thing we're seeing, though, is also that different countries are on different timelines. Many countries have said we're going to implement, but not until 25. Other countries have said we're definitely implementing in 24. Other countries said we're implementing in 24, but at the very last minute, we're hearing some of them may delay at the last minute to 25. Some countries are even saying they may delay to 26 I would say the experience has been characterized by a combination of lack of certainty on the consistency of the rules, but also quite a bit of variability in the staggeredness of the implementation.
Streeter
And Jason, what else does this show us about the variations in local legislation?
Yen
It does show that there's going to be a lot more work that will need to be done by the OECD to conform these rules and set up a process by which these interpretive differences and transition issues involving staggered implementation can be resolved. Now, whether that's from a robust peer review process or from an eventual multilateral treaty remains to be seen. I do think that it seems the OECD has said that this is less of a priority, these sort of issues, than some of the other issues that they're dealing with. But I think it's got to be elevated and rise up to a higher level of priority because we're already seeing a lot of issues arise to these questions.
Streeter
It certainly seems so. And Jay, many other countries are, of course, now at various stages of enacting the rules. So how should companies pace their preparation efforts?
Wright
I think as a general or practical matter, as countries go to enact or adopt the proposed framework by the OECD, the idea is that those frameworks lay out similar rules in order to have a streamlined flow of how each country interacts with the other, as far as how they're going to implement the rules. And ensuring things like a domestic minimum top-up tax qualifies as creditable against an income inclusion rule tax. And as a result, I think when you go to enable a process and/or develop a process or series of processes when going to really assess the potential implications of this new tax regime to your organization, you can get ahead of how you suspect once countries enact legislation on a country-by-country basis that there will be a degree of similarities, right? And so when you think about building an initial process, the idea is that we're seeing many companies build a platform derived from the proposed model framework by the OECD. The challenge is to create that flexibility such that when you go to digest the actual enacted legislation versus proposed legislation by country, it's important to make your process nimble. You must be able to flex as you think about digesting differences between the proposed framework and actual legislation to be enacted and made effective by the country.
Streeter
So from EY research, which you were talking about earlier, Brian, what have we learned about MNEs preparedness and all the incoming changes?
Foley
Well, what we have learned right now is that companies' levels of preparedness are still measured across a very wide spectrum. We have some companies that are really front-running these changes. They have been working on understanding the implications of the rules, the technical merits of the rules, the data consequences of implementing for this new regime, and really being in front of the law changes. We have some companies that have been preparing on this basis for not just months, but in fact, a couple of years since the original model rules were released in December of '21. And the other end of that spectrum is companies that are just getting started. So I think in terms of the learnings, it means that time for preparation is now. Companies should be looking at their legal structures, the technical merits of the rules, doing an overlay of the technical merits of the model rules against their structure, and then monitoring for legislative developments so that they know when the various charging provisions that Jay spoke of earlier actually come into force with respect to their legal structure based on enacted law.
Streeter
So it really does seem as though companies need to be constantly scanning the horizon. What else should they be monitoring and analyzing to be as prepared as possible, Brian?
Foley
So in addition to monitoring ongoing legislative developments, which is going to be very very key, we expect 2024 to be a very active legislative year with many countries not only addressing issues related to the global minimum tax, but a number of other local country corporate tax issues in their normal regimes.
Companies are not only going to have to monitor those legislative developments, they're also going to have to be monitoring business change. And that's everything from not just the corporate structuring issues that we talked about earlier, but also process changes internally, transformational changes around finance and accounting. Many companies are making system changes to improve their financial reporting and accounting systems. All of those things are not only going to have impacts on the traditional business, but in a Pillar Two context, will require companies to think differently about how they can source data, who owns the data, where we will be able to do the calculations for Pillar Two, and who's going to have responsibilities. So it really cuts across people, process, systems, and data as companies are thinking about all the different implications that they need to be monitoring and staying abreast of going forward into next year.
Streeter
So Jay, what else does a readiness assessment help focus attention on?
Wright
A readiness assessment from our perspective and what we've seen clients define really as a readiness assessment includes a myriad of things. I think first and foremost, it's analyzing your org chart. It's figuring out where you actually have enacted legislation to the extent you have a legal entity presence in a particular country who's done so. I think you're also looking to get ahead of where you've got a presence and where you fully expect these rules to be enacted, if not already, and made effective in the near term. I think as a result, once you've really figured that out, I think it's about building the beginnings of a process. It's figuring out and using maybe any data that's available, whether it's a prior year where you've got a full set of data to pick and choose from and work with when memorializing your potential risk of being exposed to a P&L impact or cash tax impact when it comes to this new regime, as well as building a process, maybe even using forecast data as you think about getting provision ready when you look ahead to 2024. But there's a lot to unpack there as you think about the data that's needed to derive the effective tax rate calculations that are used in determining whether a top-up tax percentage exists. There's data that's needed to determine what your new base in the form of global income is by constituent entity, by aggregate in-country, for determining the base in which the top-up tax percentage is ultimately assessed. And then I think it's the magnitude of this and how this calculation has to come together, thinking about the people that are going to be required to help you run said calculations as far as internal resource assignments, external use of advisors where needed or necessary. I think this new regime is so pervasive that it will require input, not just from tax. And then, ultimately, potentially, the deployment of technology to enable what your planned process might look like down the road. And so we're seeing a wide range of what a readiness assessment looks like, but it should be focused on all of the aforementioned.
Streeter
So when it comes to tax accounting teams, what do they need to be aware of to ensure their readiness, Jay?
Wright
From a tax accounting perspective, which is where I operate as part of being a Partner in EY's Tax Accounting Risk Advisory Services Group, it really starts with what's needed and when. And it goes back to some of what we've talked about tracking this whole implementation legislatively. From a tax accounting perspective, you must account for enacted tax law. Now, these rules where we've seen enactments such as the UK, South Korea, Japan, et cetera, to name a few, a lot of these rules will become effective in 2024. And as Brian just mentioned, we expect to see all sorts of countries go through an enactment process of these rules. And so from a tax accounting perspective, tracking that process is key. You don't account for something in your financial statements until there's been enacted law that's been made effective. And I think for tax accounting teams, to me, being that quarterback, ultimately this is a tax that will be accrued for in the financial statements of the MNE group. And as a tax accountant, it's really getting in the forefront of this, taking accountability, responsibility, being that quarterback to assemble a team around you to help enable the accrual, the review, and ultimately the booking of a potential top-up tax in your provision.
Streeter
There's a lot to take on. So, Brian, what level of operational evolution do you think will be required in this whole journey?
Foley
Operationally, I do think that for many companies this is going to require some significant change. And admittedly, for some companies with perhaps a more straightforward or streamlined structure, maybe not as much. So if we take the first example at the extreme end, if you have a company that's organized around business units in multiple jurisdictions around the world, perhaps historically, single entity tax jurisdictions did not pose a problem for those individual business units. But now, in an environment where we have to aggregate information and do analysis at a jurisdictional level, for the first time, companies that have those otherwise siloed business segments will have to figure out who's going to do the work and the analysis at a country level. A lot of times that information has not been shared across those different business unit silos historically. And today, companies are going to have to figure out, is that going to be analysis done by maybe a first among equals within the business units? Or will the analysis need to be at a level above, maybe a regional level or even a corporate global level where we have access to all of the information across all of the business units? Procedurally, companies are going to have to figure out at what level of the organization the information is available to do these calculations, and then who will have ownership and responsibility for those calculations. How will the data be sourced and provided to the people responsible? What technologies are going to be employed? And very, very importantly from a process standpoint, how this information is going to be stored and then re-accessed in future years. One of the interesting complexities of Pillar Two that is much more nuanced than what we have with existing tax regimes is that it will require, in multiple different instances, the recalculation of earlier years taxes. So it's not unrealistic to think in year six of the effective date of Pillar Two, companies may have to go back and recalculate the first year's effective rate calculations, and then incorporate any adjustment to the top-of-tax into year six. That's going to put pressure on companies to not only have all the necessary calculations, resources, and data to do the initial calculation, but also the retention of all that information and infrastructure to be able to recalculate these taxes in future periods. So it is a much different system or regime that we're looking at here operationally.
Streeter
And, of course, this comes at a time when tax departments or resources may already be operating with restricted budgets and capacities. Jay, how can these extra burdens be mitigated ?
Wright
When you come out of your assessment phase, it's looking at those exact resource constraints. It's thinking through what your process is going to look like on a quarterly versus an annual basis. It's mapping out when time constraints will be an issue. It's looking at external supplements. When you think about the use of a business tax advisor, one of the key things to focus on and really never lose sight of is the deployment or enablement of technology. And so when you think about myself as a tax accounting partner, Brian the same, or Jason coming from a technical tax perspective, we've been really leaning heavily and collaborating as a firm with our technology tax teams to warehouse data, manage data, ultimately deploy potential tools to help manage data, and ultimately feed the ability to calculate potential top-up tax. And I think what we're finding there is clients are working with us in similar ways to help look for opportunities to cut down on times of need where there's needs to analyze a lot of data, and/or there's just not a lot of time in the system to enable a calculation during, for example, a quarter close. And so I think that they're looking at advisors to supplement, whether through the build out of a process or advisors to supplement where there are just manpower needs.
Streeter
And what's your take on this, Brian?
Foley
I would just say that many companies are already on a journey of trying to figure out how to do more with less. As we've seen for the past decade, really a steady increase in the demands on tax from an administration, transparency, disclosure, digitization perspective that has changed the landscape of tax reporting. I think we're now at a hyper inflexion point with the global minimum tax really providing that final impetus for any company that has not initiated those efforts to evolve their processes, to root out inefficiencies through the use of technology, and to really think differently about how they deploy resources and reuse information smartly. So that rather than spending 70-80 % of their time analyzing data and preparing data for calculations, they need to use technology to get the data into a usable form faster so that they can devote much more of their time on the analysis and the calculations that are necessary for reporting.
Streeter
So, Jason, companies, as we've highlighted, may feel they're struggling under a mountain of new complex rules. Where can they seek help?
Yen
It's very difficult. This is not like ordinary tax legislation that moves through a domestic process. This really is inter-jurisdictional to global tax. Most companies, particularly the larger ones, are going to have to have dedicated resources, whether it's internally or hiring external help that will likely focus the majority of their time on complying with these new rules. When I think of what are some of the parameters for what people or advisory you'll need to work with, certainly, it'll be critical that they be able to follow global developments and have a presence globally to know what is going on, whether it's in Asia or America or Europe. We at EY have a tracker that we keep very up to date, and it's very quickly changing. Every week, there is new updates where countries are implementing some portions of the rules or making changes to what portions that they're deciding to implement. So very important to keep up to date. But then as we can hear from Jay and Brian, the accounting expertise that's required to implement this tax is enormous. That is something that ordinary tax advisors probably don't necessarily have that background. And so being able to work with whether someone internally or externally that has both the strong tax accounting as well as able to follow the global development and the technical issues that are arising is critical.
Streeter
Looking ahead, Jason, do you think BEPS 2.0 will undergo further changes given that it's a relatively new standard that's radically changing global taxation? And if so, what implications will this have for tax teams and how can they prepare?
Yen
It's a great question. I think the answer to that is wholeheartedly yes. In the US, we updated our tax code in 1986, and we're still making constant changes to it. These rules, even though the OECD has said that the model rules are set in stone, they are absolutely going to be evolving, and they have to because as time goes by, companies and advisors and governments will realize that their problems are issues, either there's loopholes or unintended consequences. So there will be constant changes to these rules. And each time that the rules are changed, they have to be changed at a global level and then pushed out and implemented in jurisdictions at a relatively quick amount of time in order for the rules to stay consistent. So I do think that it's really a radical change in the sense that we are now spending a lot of our time looking not to Congress or to parliaments or other domestic legislatures for updated changes, but rather we're looking to this global authority, the OECD, to see what changes are coming down the pipe. That's going to have major implications for how companies think both in terms of advocacy or dispute resolution and just forecasting that we now have to look at this new global body to understand what changes are forthcoming.
Streeter
And of course, historically, governments have attracted businesses to their territories by offering lower statutory tax rates. And because that opportunity has now been diminished through BEPS 2.0, do you think, Jason, that governments will introduce other initiatives to attract businesses, which could also have to be monitored by tax teams? And how can they be ready for this? It seems they have to be ready for everything at the moment.
Yen
It's a great question. And this is, I think, the big issue when we're looking past Pillar Two is how are countries going to react? There's no question. Countries are not going to just sit on the side line and stop incentivizing business, especially if you're a smaller jurisdiction without significant natural resources. And some of these countries have been very successful in attracting business, especially from the United States, based on tax incentives, and they're not going to go quietly. Many of these countries have already made announcements this year that they're going to be offering other types of incentives in the form of refundable tax credits, which have a more favorable treatment under the Pillar Two rules, or in terms of grants, increased investment in infrastructure or education, below market loans, all these sorts of things. I do think that has a critical implication for tax teams because whereas for an in-house tax group, when you've mainly been focused on lowering your ETR or getting a cash income tax benefit, that's going to be much more difficult under Pillar Two. But there are going to be these non-tax incentives, and many of those probably weren't being undertaken by the tax team. Maybe there are some other group in the company that has been focused on applying for grant or applying for other types of incentives. But those kinds of awards, which are probably less common in some of the countries that have triggered and used tax incentives, are now going to become much more important. And companies are going to need to adapt either by expanding their tax team to cover those sorts of developments or expanding their other teams outside the tax group to be able to monitor and apply for those sorts of incentives. So it's a great question, and I think that's going to be one of the major challenges going forward.
Streeter
It's great to get a glimpse into your crystal ball, Jason. But I want to bring us back to the present. I want you all, really, to sum up. If you could give companies one nugget of advice to get to grips with the BEPS 2.0 complexity right now, what would it be? And how should they approach this whole process? Brian?
Foley
First and foremost, as companies are planning for the impact of this new regime, they need to also be thinking about disruption events. Most commonly, companies are building solid routines, they're building plans, they're starting to make their preparation efforts around what is the existing model, the existing business, the existing legislative dynamic. And I think companies are really going to have to be pivoting quickly toward – how do I manage disruption? Businesses are not static. Companies are going to be doing acquisitions, dispositions, restructuring business. And we're going to have an evolution of the tax laws around this new regime that we will no longer have the benefit of a delayed effective day in many instances. So once the law is enacted and effective, companies will have to be accounting for the effects of that immediately. And when there are changes, those changes are going to have to be taken into account and disruptions will have to be taken into account as discrete items as they occur. And that's going to be an additional pressure point for many companies as they navigate beyond just the routine complexities into that disruptive complexity of the new regime.
Streeter
Thank you, Brian. And Jay, what's your big nugget of advice?
Wright
You were talking a little bit about how these rules vary as far as the degrees of impact to different organizations. I think it's important to have your process written down, documented, controls in place to prepare and review these calculations no matter the scale. I think it's important to be proactive when engaging in discussions with your external auditor to invite them into this process. That's the way you can collaborate to achieve fluid communication with your external auditors. You build out your process such that when we get into 2024, there are no surprises, internally or externally. So, I strongly encourage that type of proactive engagement with your external auditor.
Streeter
Well, thanks, Jay. And finally, Jason, what advice can you give?
Yen
The key here is to ensure that if you're a tax practitioner, you're VP of tax, that you're elevating these issues to your C-suite, to management, so that they understand that this is a significant change to the company. That the company will need to dedicate resources to be able to comply and manage all these new rules. And that means not just expanding the tax group, but also making sure that other parts of the company, the accounting, finance side, are aware of these dramatic changes to the tax rules that will require their cooperation with the tax department to comply. I also think there needs to be recognition that for many companies, their ETRs, their effective tax rates may well go up. At the same time, for probably all companies, their compliance cost will go up. But on the other hand, there is going to be a significant risk of controversy, penalties, and other types of things if companies are not able to comply with these rules. And where there might be a hope that these rules continue to get delayed or maybe don't happen, I think it's important to emphasize to management that that's very unlikely to happen. We're in a world now where countries need and want tax revenue. The cat's out of the bag that Pillar Two is going to be out there and is a potential way to raise tax revenue. And so there's a political impetus for these rules, and I don't think they're going to go away. So we're all going to have to learn to manage and adapt.
Streeter
Okay, well, thank you so much to all three of you, to Jason, Jay, and Brian. It's been a really fascinating discussion and some super useful insights there on how businesses can prepare for the BEPS 2.0 era and beyond. Thank you so much for your time.
Foley
Thank you. It's great to join in.
Yen
Thank you. It was a pleasure to be here.
Wright
Same. Appreciate the invite.
Streeter
And for more information, you can visit ey.com. And a quick note from the legal team - the views of third parties set out in this podcast aren't necessarily the views of the global EY organization nor its member firms. Moreover, they should be seen in the context of the time in which they were made. I'm Susannah Streeter. I hope you'll join me again for the next edition of Tax and Law in Focus, brought to you by EY, Building a Better Working World.