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How human-centered innovation can help transform workforces in the public sector
In this episode of Innovation Unfolded, Tim Smith talks to Shalinder Bakshi from EY and Pooja Warier Hamilton from Apolitical about identifying skills, attracting talent and driving a learning culture.
Innovation Unfolded is a Leading into Tomorrow miniseries exploring how innovation is sparked and embedded, and how focusing on a few key areas can unlock value across the public sector.
In this episode, experts join host Tim Smith to unravel how innovation can help overcome workforce challenges, including rising citizen expectations and fierce competition for talent and skills.
Shalinder Bakshi, EY Global Government and Public Services People Advisory Services Leader, explains why identifying and developing core skills sets is crucial — but it’s not all about data and digital. And Pooja Warier Hamilton, Chief Partnerships Officer at Apolitical, highlights the need to allocate resources and drive a culture of ongoing learning to achieve goals.
Key takeaways
- To attract and keep good talent, public sector organizations should articulate what makes them different: a strong purpose and career path, a community of peers and the chance to make a real impact.
- Keeping up with other sectors in technology adoption is important, but so is the human side — helping people to transition when their roles become redundant.
- Organizations must support their HR and people functions when transforming their workforces, as they’re the ones in charge of recruitment and learning and development.
The podcast is available to listen to on Spotify, iTunes, Amazon Music and Podbean.
If you’d like to read more, a full text transcript of this podcast is also available.
Tim Smith
Hello and welcome to Innovation Unfolded, part of the Leading into Tomorrow podcast series from EY. We're coming to you from Innovation 2024, where government leaders from across the globe have been brought together to discuss the transformation of the public sector and its services.Smith
Now this is a two-day summit at ExCel in London, featuring engaging keynote speeches and in-depth panel discussions from a range of professions and functions, all aiming to foster the collaboration that innovation demands.Smith
In this podcast series, we'll be joined by government and business leaders to hear how innovation is sparked and embedded, and how to unlock value across the public sector by focusing on a few key areas.Smith
In this episode, we're asking how can innovation enhance the public sector workforce while putting people at the center? Joining me to discuss that is Shalinder Bakshi, EY Global Government and Public Services People Advisory Services Leader. Nice to see you, Shalinder. Thank you for joining us.Shalinder Bakshi
Great to see you, Tim, as well.Smith
And also with us is Pooja Warier Hamilton, Chief Partnerships Officer at Apolitical, the social learning network for government. Pooja, hello. Welcome to the podcast.Pooja Warier Hamilton
Thank you for having me here, Tim.Smith
Well, Shalinder, let me start with you. Can you set the scene for us generally in terms of the change that's happening in the public sector workforce right now? It's a big subject, I know. But what can you do?Bakshi
Absolutely. So big picture first. I think there are three or four key changes or trends that are having a massive impact in, the times that we live in.Bakshi
Number one is raising and changing citizen expectation from the government when it comes to service delivery, be it the quality of services, be it the speed at which the services are delivered. Citizens expect better, more, and as quickly as possible.Bakshi
Number two is the huge technological change that's happening around us. The rise of generative AI [GenAI] and the adoption of that, and the other large technologies which are actually disrupting a lot of what was so-called status quo for the last so many years.Bakshi
And if we were to look slightly internal at an enterprise and an organization level, two big changes again that are making the big shift: number one is the talent and the skill agenda which is so critical at leadership board conversations. And lastly a huge demographic shift that we are seeing essentially in the current times of a multigenerational workforce existing or coexisting at the same point of time in an organization.Smith
Pooja, let's bring you in now. This is a big subject, isn't it?Hamilton
It is indeed a big subject, and in our work with governments around the world, I couldn't agree more with Shalinder. And there's a genuine, fierce competition for talent, not just in government but across sectors. And it's important to note that it's not just about pay anymore, it's also about cultures that reward innovation and experimentation. And the latest, the UK Civil Service people strategy, is reflecting that.Hamilton
But equally, if you look at sort of, for example, the fast stream applications, they've plummeted to less than half in 2023 from 2021. Now that's sort of the next-generation Civil Service talent. So that's a reason that we need to look at.Hamilton
The other thing I would look at is, there's a battle for culture currently, especially with technology. There is a whole generation that's looking at a compliance-led approach to it and there's another part that's looking at opportunity-led. And I think we can't afford to have this divergence, especially in the Civil Service workforce, around should we embrace technology or should we regulate, because both of them are important and need to be considered equally.Smith
So Shalinder, how do you stop that happening then? How can the public sector workforce be configured correctly and perhaps quickly enough for this transformation, so that you get the benefits of technology and accelerate the efficiency of the services, which of course is what you're trying to do?Bakshi
Absolutely, and I think while the challenge is difficult, it's interesting at the same point of time, because it does bring out a lot of opportunities.Bakshi
And let me put it in two buckets. The first one, critically, is to look at what are the key skill sets that need to be sort of focused within an organization? And when we talk about skill sets, there is a conversation with multiple governments. And again, let me sort of zoom out a little bit, you know, from work that we do with governments, there are three broad sort of segments. One is the developed economies, right? You know, countries like the UK, the US and some of the others. The emerging markets, which is where the change and the speed of change is so rapid, and you've got to cater to huge populations where the needs are, you know, significantly rising day in and day out. And the third segment is obviously the developing world, which is also trying to catch up with the first two categories.Bakshi
Now, in that context, when we talk about skills and the skill ecosystem, it is changing. So there will be skills and there are going to be skills which are at the risk of becoming redundant in the next few years, but there is also a skill set or, you know, set of skills which will need to be adopted as quickly as possible — number one.Bakshi
Number two — and slightly deep diving into this, the subject is broadly for us, skills need to be put into three or four buckets, right? While there is a lot of focus currently on data, AI [artificial intelligence], digital, and sustainability of course. But there are other skill sets which need equal sort of focus on. For example, cognitive skills. For example, interpersonal skills. For example, most important, leadership skills and leadership both at an individual level as well as, you know, at the larger supervisory or managerial level.Bakshi
So with that, for an organization to really unlock the benefits, you've got to focus on both the segments. From a process perspective, from a framework perspective, organizations and typically public sector organizations are essentially putting in a process where it is largely skill first, you know, in terms of identifying the right skill sets, but also looking at how does the organization create very personalized parts, learning parts so to say, so that these skill sets are addressed and developed within a reasonable time frame? So, exciting stuff. Lots to do, less time, but super priority. And I think that's an exciting time for us as well.Smith
Well, you've described an exciting time, and here's an easy question for you now, Pooja. How is all of that achieved then, looking forward into the future? Because there's a lot of requirements there, as Shalinder has just outlined.Hamilton
Yeah, there's a link between setting targets and I think there's no lack of government setting targets around the world, around skills. But the two things that need to go alongside it is, number one, allocating the resources to actually execute on whatever targets, and there often tends to be a persistent gap between those.Hamilton
But the second piece that seems to be missing is the culture piece. Again, how do you drive a culture of ongoing learning and ongoing skill development, especially in today's time when things are changing so quickly? An example I will give you is on climate, for instance. So, nobody will deny that government is an essential actor for climate action. And yet our research has shown that, even though 68% of public servants feel that climate change is affecting their jobs, only 35% of them have ever, ever received any climate or nature training as part of their jobs. And this is just … we cannot expect public servants to drive complex policies, reimagine budgets without actually having…Smith
If they're not taught about it themselves.Hamilton
Exactly, exactly. And that's where the target needs to be accompanied by resources as well as culture, because otherwise it's, what's that, culture eats strategy for breakfast? This is a perfect example of that.Smith
Okay, so that's attracting the talent, that's attracting the workforce. How do you retain them? You guarantee some kind of career progression?Bakshi
I think attraction in itself, and the current times that Pooja mentioned it, there is a war for talent for sure. And interestingly, the war for talent is not just within the private ecosystem, the commercial world, but it's also within government and then between the government and the public sector as well as the private. So you’ve got a multidimensional war for talent happening as we speak.Bakshi
I think, in this scenario, one of the wonderful things that some of the organizations are doing, and we're helping them, is to craft a very sharp and a strong value proposition. And I think the fundamental thing that sort of differentiates the government and the public sector ecosystem from the others is a sense of purpose, and the ability for the role holder to come into the job and make an impact, I think it's huge. But it has to be articulated.Bakshi
Number two is the element of a career in government. I think there's always this question mark, you know, what happens to me as an individual if I come in service or work for the government? Is there a career? The answer is absolutely yes, but again, it needs to be articulated very clearly.Bakshi
Number three is, the learning opportunities or career opportunities, the element of mobility that exists. And lastly, while, you know, compensation and rewards may not be as attractive, but we believe we have to put the entire proposition together and put it on the table from an attraction perspective. And coming back to the other questions that you alluded to is the retention piece as well, which is as critical, right?Bakshi
We were looking at some data essentially on attrition, etc. The problem of attrition is actually very, very severe when it comes to the private sector. Within governments, while it is there in some pockets, but it's not as severe. So when we sort of deep dived into it, as to what is it that is actually helping the organizations to retain, it is the proposition. It is the other opportunities that get provided to individuals to move into different roles and make an impact on the larger ecosystem.Hamilton
In terms of retention, so we developed a course with the Government Curriculum and Skills Unit on how to build your career in the UK Civil Service. And in that, a few things that came up — just building on what Shalinder was saying — one was the importance of finding a community that grows and sticks with you. Because you often change your jobs, you often change departments, but what can remain is this community of peers that can share their learnings and their experiences with you, which really sort of creates that sense of shared purpose as well.Hamilton
The second piece is around how do you encourage learning and development, especially for new technologies so it doesn't become that Civil Service is always catching up with the private sector, which seems to be the case? Whereas how can you be proactive and say, let's give people in the Civil Service access to new technologies at the same time as the other sectors?Hamilton
And the last thing I would say is, there are fantastic Civil Service professions, you know, within the UK especially, for instance. So there are those resources available where I think we also need to build a culture of taking ownership of your learning and not expecting otherwise, always to be given learning. So how do you build that culture of, you've got to figure out your own learning and development pathways, with the support of the organization?Bakshi
There is this transition that's happening — old and new, build and buy, demand and supply — and that's where the chief people officers and the HR heads believe that the human element, you know, needs to be still there to manage the entire transition. So there will be role holders who might essentially not have a role in times to come. How does the organization still have a softer or a human face and say look at, okay, what can we do for you as you transition?Bakshi
What are the developmental opportunities that we provide to you as an individual, if your role, for whatever reason, may become not relevant in the times to come?Hamilton
The one stakeholder group that often gets ignored are people who work in people, HR and talent functions. If we are to really think about transforming workforces, we've got to think about supporting the people who think about learning and development, people who think about recruitment, and really throwing a spotlight.Hamilton
We just released a 35 trailblazers list of people working in people and HR functions in government and they're loving it, because they're like, nobody's ever given us attention. This is brilliant, you know? And I think that's important, to give them the spotlight they deserve.Smith
Well, you've sold it to me. Am I too old now to join the Civil Service?Bakshi
It's interesting, it's a global list. So we've got a few people in different countries who are calling us and calling them and saying, thank you so much. We didn't know that our roles are so important.Smith
Guys, thank you very much indeed. I think we've covered a lot of ground there, but I mean, a lot going on, but exciting times.Bakshi
Yeah. Exciting times.Hamilton
Right.Bakshi
Exciting times.Smith
Okay. Shalinder, Pooja, thank you very much indeed for joining me on this podcast. That is it for this episode. As I say, thanks for such an interesting and fascinating conversation. And don't miss the rest of Innovation Unfolded, where we'll continue to unravel the art, and the science, of innovating in the public sector.From me though, Tim Smith, for now, thanks for listening.
End of podcast.
Podcast
Episode 02
Duration
0h 13m 20s
