Podcast transcript: EY CEO Outlook: Leading the future of food production with Conor Galvin, Dairygold

Graham Reid, Partner and Head of Clients and Markets, EY Ireland: Welcome to the EY CEO Outlook Podcast series, where our host Richard Curran talks with some of Ireland's leading CEOs about leadership, lessons learned and their future business plans. Hi, I'm Graham Reid, Partner and Head of Clients and Markets at EY in Ireland. In this episode, we welcome Conor Galvin, CEO of Dairygold, Ireland's largest farmer owned cooperative. 2022 was a big year for the well-known Irish brand. They achieved a record turnover of 1.65 billion, an increase of over 40% from the previous year. A recent strategic review to reflect and align on future growth has also seen the Cork headquartered business begin to focus on new opportunities, including those in health and in the nutrition space. So over to you, Richard.

Richard Curran, Journalist and Broadcaster: Thanks, Graham, and we hope you're enjoying this podcast series of interviews with CEOs. And thanks for listening to the EY podcast CEO Outlook series. If you like what you've heard, hit, follow or subscribe and leave a review and do subscribe because we have lots more big interviews with industry leaders in the weeks ahead. Well, my next guest on this episode is Conor Galvin, CEO of Dairygold, a co-op that can trace its roots back to the early 1900s. A lot has changed in the food industry, and Dairygold has become a giant of the sector, with turnover of €1.65 billion last year. And it looks to the future with lots more change and opportunity on the horizon. Conor, you're very welcome.

Conor Galvin, CEO, Dairygold: Thank you very much, Richard.

Richard Curran: You joined Dairygold a number of years ago. Was it back in 2014 and became CEO in January 2022? An interesting time to join, actually. Lots going on.

Conor Galvin:  Yeah. A very interesting time to join. And probably part of the reason I joined was because of the imminent dairy expansion. I mean, dairy in Ireland for 30 years had been restricted by milk quotas. And in 2015 there was a significant opportunity to expand the industry and for Dairygold to expand. And it was most of the motivation for joining the business that there was a new phase of development that was possible.

Richard Curran: And of course that was delivered on and that expansion happened and happened right across the sector. And I suppose it raises lots of other questions that we can come to a little bit later on about climate change and targets and emissions and so forth. But taking over as CEO in January 2022, what was that like? There would have been a few things very immediately in the in-tray.

Conor Galvin: Yeah, I mean, like every year, every year is different. But probably 2022 was the year that none of us expected because I suppose, first of all, it was the end of the pandemic. So we were at the tail end of Omicron and taking over a business where a significant number of people had either contracted or were about to contract Covid. It was a real challenge because we're a business that requires a lot of our colleagues to be present, given that we're manufacturing and processing milk 24/7. So the tail end of the pandemic was a challenge. But the bigger challenge obviously was the invasion of Ukraine, which happened about six weeks after I took over. And the volatility and the uncertainty that that created.

Richard Curran: Your first time in the CEO role in Dairygold and it coincides with a war.

Conor Galvin: Yeah, a war in Europe, the first war in Europe in 70 years. So I'm thinking to myself, "well, this is great timing". And the reality was, I mean, we needed to very quickly manage a number of things which we had a level of control over, but we had to try and manage risk, like, for example, energy costs. And we all know the story of how energy moved so quickly, particularly given the fact that so much of our energy came from that part of the world. And, you know, we had a gas price in very rough terms, which went up about 800% in four weeks. And as a business that's heavily reliant on gas to dry milk. And also, you know, other products that gas is made off of like fertilizer and electricity.

Richard Curran: So you were seeing that every day?

Conor Galvin: We were seeing that every day. Yeah. And you know, what we needed to do was keep the business operating. So a significant amount of planning required to make sure that we could flick the lights on and the dryers on every day.

Richard Curran: The fact that you were in Dairygold for a number of years before taking over as CEO, no doubt you were very familiar with the business and that would have helped. But also as a business that's owned by its members who are farmers largely, and you from a farming background. I'm sure that has helped as well. You're originally from County Westmeath.

Conor Galvin: Yeah, yeah. I grew up in Westmeath on a family farm. So I suppose I understand the dynamic of how the business works. And the business is not just what you see in the processing sites and you know, the agri stores. The business is from the farm forward. So I grew up in a farm that supplied milk to the local co-op and, you know, have a have a good understanding of, first of all, what agriculture is about, which is a 24/7, seven days a week job. But also it's a very wholesome and a very honourable sort of profession that farmers have to produce food. And it's really what brought me back into the industry was that food production ethos and the quality of the food that farmers can produce and how seriously they take it.

Richard Curran: Does it help you to do the job, the fact that you were from a farm background?

Conor Galvin: No question about it, because I think you've got an empathy with those who produce the milk that you can transfer back into how you approach, you know, every everyday work and also have a good understanding of the pressures that the whole supply chain is under because our milk suppliers form part of the supply chain. So I think having that knowledge and experience of what goes on inside the farm gate and also what goes on in the farmhouse is very important because it helps me to do the job better.

Richard Curran: Despite that experience, agriculture experience growing up, you spent after school about 25 years working in different jobs that really didn't have anything to do with agriculture.

Conor Galvin: No, they didn't. And I think, you know, when I was growing up on the farm, I probably knew eventually, like everything else, you know, you do a full boomerang and you end up where you started. But, you know, I left school and I studied science in UCD that gave me...

Richard Curran:  Did you have a plan as to what you wanted to do?

Conor Galvin:  I probably did have a plan, which was that, you know, I had a plan of discovery is probably I how I would describe it, where, you know, I was always interested in how things worked and things I didn't know. And science was a very good place to start. And you don't have two science subjects for the Leaving Cert, which went you know very well and it kind of wetted my appetite to go down that road. And as a result, I did a science degree, as I said, in UCD, and I then turned that over into a PhD. So I did four years of research. Again in UCD in Belfield. And what it gave me was a really good grounding in, first of all, resilience, because particularly when you're involved in scientific research, you are working for yourself essentially, and particularly with research in the in the 90s, probably not as structured or as well funded as it is today. But also it really gave you a good training in looking for facts and building arguments and strengthening your communication skills. You know, you have to you have to write a thesis at the end of the programme which you have to form coherent thoughts and make coherent arguments.

Richard Curran: What did you do your PhD on?

Conor Galvin: I did my PhD in human muscle development and the growth factors that affect the development of muscle, which was very topical at the time because it was around the same time that recombinant growth factors were being both used and abused in human health. So, you know, being used to help those, for example, with muscular dystrophy that had muscle wasting conditions that, you know, these were very, very efficient therapies being used. But also being abused mainly in sports. And I think the sports aspect of it is the one, you know, even now, that's very interesting because, you know, being able to manipulate the body to your advantage is something that there's still a significant amount of happening, you know, both in sports and outside of sports.

Richard Curran: And it was quite a journey away from that when you joined Procter and Gamble. How did that come about?

Conor Galvin: Yeah, I joined I mean, I probably about two years into the PhD, I realized it wasn't for me. And I'm a great believer in taking control of situations and not being swept along. So I made a decision long before I graduated that I wasn't going to be a researcher for the rest of my life and started scoping out what the opportunities were that I could start to transition myself into. And I came across Procter and Gamble, P&G, who are, you know, a global manufacturer of a lot of household and personal health and beauty care products and was interested in Procter because they saw the value in the person rather than the qualification. Because at that stage, me wanting to leave science, the danger would be you join a company and you're still a scientist. And that wasn't what I wanted to do. I wanted to get involved in finance. So P&G had a program there, a graduate program which actively sought out people for the finance program that didn't have a finance degree. And to be honest, that intrigued me because everybody in my intake had fine arts degrees or were engineers or were scientists. There was no business studies degrees in the cohort at all. And that gave me a confidence that the person could be trained or could be coached in order to deliver something other than their qualification.

Richard Curran: As a piece of corporate culture as well. It's a real recipe for diversity, for having people from diverse backgrounds with different views, different skill sets and different perspectives.

Conor Galvin: Yeah, it drives a really innovative environment where innovation isn't just in product, but it's also in how things get done and what gets done and who's involved in what gets done. Because there's less of a chance that somebody will stand up and say, "I have the right to have a better idea than you", because everyone is sort of an equal in terms of coming to things new. So that was a real eye opener. And when I was there, then obviously I qualified as an accountant at night, so I got all of the qualifications, but I think that was less important than the experience I got in the business, which was real hands on experience.

Richard Curran: A lot of hard work, working as part of that program and studying at night and qualifying and...

Conor Galvin: Yeah, it was, but worth it and I think recognized by the company. So if you're, if you're doing something in your own time, but the company is recognizing it, you're more likely to see the value of it, even if it's not monetary value. But it's, you know, it's adding to your ability to do your job during the day.

Richard Curran: So what did you do in P&G? What was the job like?

Conor Galvin: The job, I mean, I was involved in financial analysis and financial management then for the six years I was there. So I started in a manufacturing plant, which is generally where everybody starts to get a really good sense of where product comes from. I moved from there to the marketing function, which is really at the core of Procter and what they do in terms of that kind of strategy of selling. But also I ran the finance function here in Ireland for about three years and that really gave me a good grounding in that financial leadership piece in, in having to essentially bring home the bacon.

Richard Curran: If you'd stayed, were you looking at a situation where you were going to have to travel abroad and stay abroad a lot?

Conor Galvin: That's the model. I mean, the model is very much one where you move and you grow and the business grows with you. In P&G, you can only join at the entry level. So, you know, you grow with the business and the business grows with you, I guess for me and for my personal situation, after a while it didn't work because you're continuing to move. And I outgrew Ireland in the P&G sense, but I wanted to stay in Ireland. So I made a very tough decision many years ago to leave that business. And I still watch it with a lot of interest because you leave it, you leave it day to day, but you know, you never really leave it from a kind of heart and soul point of view.

Richard Curran: But no regrets?

Conor Galvin: Absolutely none. I mean, I wouldn't look back. I think the six odd years that I had there gave me a really, really strong grounding in business process. And also the fact that the individual and how they add value isn't just a tag, you know, it's under qualification. It's also important that there's opportunities given and there is support coaching and the belief that good people can deliver every day.

Richard Curran: You don't find yourself looking at promotions in P&G globally and saying, "oh I remember that guy. He wasn't that smart. I think I could have done that job".

Conor Galvin: No, I don't. Because generally the people who are there are extraordinary business leaders. You know, and it's because it's a culture where you progress and, you know, it's almost like self-selecting. Those that are still there from my cohort are exceptional people. And they've made that international sacrifice to keep moving through the business and driving value for themselves and for P&G. And I just love to see them getting on and also looking at the things they're doing because they're, you know, it's a very visible organization.

Richard Curran: So after P&G you went to DCC?

Conor Galvin: Yeah, I moved to DCC based in Dublin. I mean, at that stage I'm qualified to have my Accountancy degree and have ran an Irish business for a number of years. So I moved into DCC, into the Food and Beverage Division at the time and was based in Dublin running the Robert Roberts and Findlater wine business for the finance function, which was first of all, you know, for me a really good grounding in a, I guess what you might describe as pure accountancy in some respects. But also in returning on investments from shareholders. I mean, DCC is a phenomenal organisation in terms of its focus on its return and its cash flow and its cash generation. And it really gave me a very strong kind of North Star in what a business is actually there to do. I mean, a business for its stakeholders can, you know, can say it's there to do many different things. But the reality is, first and foremost, it's there to drive value for shareholders. And that's what DCC does in spades.

Richard Curran: And they have a huge track record in doing that over a long period. Does that create its own pressures, though? When you're inside an organisation like that, you can learn an awful lot, but is it a pressurised environment?

Conor Galvin: Well, I guess it's a pressurised environment, but the most important thing is that there's a strategy there that's designed to deliver on the goals of the organisation and then whatever the business decides to do is in line with that strategy. So, you know, we were very careful and very early on that we had a good direction for our business and that, you know, then we could patiently implement that strategy. We had just acquired the Finlator business as I was coming into DCC and so that integration took about 18 months to really drive value out of it. But equally, you're going through a period of time when the Irish economy was falling apart. I joined DCC on the 1st of January 2009, so the bank guarantee scheme had just been announced.

Richard Curran: Everybody gets a bit of a shiver down their spine when you mention January 2009.

Conor Galvin: It was phenomenal because every week I did a forecast. The only thing I could guarantee you was we missed it both in volume and value because there was almost no disposable income left in the country for about two years. So there was a real requirement to have a strong plan and stick to it and believe that, you know, if it's the right thing to do, then you just keep at it because things did come good. But that probably took about two years. And in the meantime, you're really only doing the things that are necessary to keep the business, to keep the business going. And I mean, I'm proud to say we didn't leave anybody off during the 2 or 3 years that we had the difficulties because, you know, we were very careful with how the business was managed.

Richard Curran: And the business was sold on then.

Conor Galvin: Yeah. So the business was acquired by Valeo in 2014. And that was a lot of, of my reason for transitioning out. Not that I didn't want to move to Valeo, but I felt that it was, it was a good time for me to try something new. I mean, at that stage I had been involved in some aspect of finance for nearly 15 years, and I had in some respects wanted to kind of pivot again and I'd pivoted into finance and I was now interested in pivoting back out of it.

Richard Curran: And then Dairygold was on the cards in 2014, and becoming CEO in 2022. We talked a little bit about what was in the in-tray, very immediately when you became CEO, but also what did you see as the big challenges for the business that you wanted to address?

Conor Galvin: Yeah, I think there's a number of challenges that the business has and probably the wider industry has in relation to where we find ourselves and probably since 2020. And you know, they are first of all, we've already talked about expansion and milk quotas disappearing in 2015, but we always knew that that was probably something that would come to an end. And all of our forecasting suggested that the business would roughly double in size, and that's essentially what happened. So we moved from about 850,000,000l of milk to 1.5 billion litres of milk in six years. But that growth now has started to plateau as our milk suppliers have really got what they had the ambition to have and they essentially just want to hold on to that, to that size of business now.

Richard Curran: Did you think that it would plateau because of the farmers perspective on it or their capacity or ability to expand would just hit a ceiling and that would be it, what did you see as the triggers?

Conor Galvin: I think their capacity and ability to expand probably is a finite resource, if that makes sense. Because you have to remember, most of our farmers are family farmers and they have an ambition to have a business of a reasonable size, but they don't have infinite resources in terms of land and buildings and capital. But equally they're working for themselves. And while they may have some farm help that comes in to do some of the jobs, they're essentially sole traders. So we always knew that the growth was going to be quick, but also would level off. And then equally, you know, it's levelled off more recently because the second challenge that we have and it's a challenge the country has, but, you know, our agriculture has also is the environment and the environmental challenges of producing food.

Richard Curran: And did you see that coming a few years ago that, you know, it wasn't going to be possible to reach the sort of emissions targets if the expansion kept going?

Conor Galvin: Yeah, I guess there was always an expectation there that there was going to be a need to do things differently. And a lot of those things that have been done differently, we've already started. Whether it's on farm or it's in the processing units. But there is still a lot of that work that has to be done. And I think there's an acceptance in the industry that over time the environmental impact of producing that food is going to have to reduce. Did we see it? I mean, I think there was probably an expectation that there was going to be pressure on the system. But that being said, I think, you know, the fact that the volumes now have levelled off demonstrates that there's a really good understanding that we're there. And the amount of milk being produced is sufficient for what the ambition of the industry is. And the next project now is to really reduce the impact that milk has.

Richard Curran: So where does that leave Dairygold as a business when you think about the future and expansion? Because if the amount of milk produced and if you can find markets and customers for the products that you can make from it, if the amount produced isn't going to keep on growing, what's your growth plan?

Conor Galvin: Yeah, the growth plan, I suppose, is probably threefold. So first of all, what we've said is we need to have a stable core business and we re-did the strategy last year and we're very clear the business that we have, which is really what supports our milk suppliers has got to be delivering all, you know, all day, every day, every month, every year. So core business stability in the financial delivery of that operation is the first pillar. But the growth, some of it will come from the value of milk and trying to add more value to what is probably now a static milk pool. But a lot of the growth will come from new activity. So, you know, we have a whole strategy around margin development and growth outside of our core as well. And some of that will probably be milk related in terms of launching new products that are not currently in the core. But quite a lot of it will probably be non-milk and it will be non-milk related activities.

Richard Curran: You recently did an acquisition of a majority stake in Vita Actives.

Conor Galvin: We did, yeah. And the, you know, we set up a business unit called Dairygold Health and Nutrition in 2020. And its sole purpose is to add value from nutritional solutions. And those nutritional solutions might be milk related and they might be internal. But we did also say that the majority of the value that business unit will drive is probably acquired value. So we've recently acquired Vita Actives, and Vita Actives is a company that drives value for its customers through acquiring nutritional supplements and vitamins and minerals and creates solutions for customers which they see value in. And we believe that while there's a lot of crossovers within the Dairygold business and what Vita Actives currently do, there's also a lot of new activities that will drive value for health and nutrition, and potentially for other parts of the business in the future.

Richard Curran: Do you think in terms of geography at all as part of that expansion? Because it's an unusual situation to be in. You're thinking about new areas, new product lines, continuing with obviously with dairy and variations of that and then non-dairy products. Do you look at territories and where might that be in the future?

Conor Galvin: Yeah I suppose even currently. I mean, most of the products that Dairygold produces and most of the product that the industry produces is exported. So, you know, in terms of territories, we already trade very strongly in the UK and Europe, Middle East, North Africa and in Asia and the Vita Actives business is no different. You know, so there is a very strong level of trade already in the UK and Europe, some in North America and some in Asia as well. But we see that as an enormous opportunity where we can plug into what the two businesses are currently doing and that over time could be integrated or, you know, we could find some synergies from. It is more likely, I think, that as we really get to grips with where the overlaps are and that we drive new value and new territories with new products. And I think that's where we'll see the real value. But for the time being, I think, you know, Vita Actives will continue to trade in the territories it's in which are, you know, there's a reasonable amount of overlap between those territories in the Dairygold territories.

Richard Curran: When it comes to leadership and management style Conor, are you a sort of a consensus leader, an open door policy leader? How would you characterize your approach to that?

Conor Galvin: Probably a little bit of both of what you've said there. I mean, what I'm a great believer in is, first of all, that we need to create a vision and a target around which people can coalesce. So while there is a certain element of directive leadership to what we do, because that's the culture of our business and we have been very careful to construct a strategy and communicate it across the entire business around where Dairygold is going and what the ambition for Dairygold is, and then to organize around that and really to try and make sure that people feel part of something bigger so that they have a real sense of being able to deliver something that's important. I mean, I do believe in a level of consensus, but the challenge with consensus is that it may take so long that nothing gets done. So there comes a point after seeking feedback where, you know, I have to step in and be more directive in relation to what direction we go in. And sometimes it's obvious because the strategy is done in a reasonable amount of detail, but there are conflicting objectives and there comes a point where you have to say there's a job to be done, we need to get on with it and here's the way we're going at it.

Richard Curran: When it comes to your members who are shareholders, who are suppliers of milk to the co-op, is it tempting to just have a popularity contest and give them a spectacular price for their milk that, you know, maybe not all that sustainable so many years down the road?

Conor Galvin: Yeah, it's for me it to be honest, it isn't. And I think for milk suppliers that are listening to this now, they're falling off their chairs. But I don't think it's in anyone's interests that we do that. I mean, when I was growing up, we supplied a co-op which is no longer in existence, probably somewhat because of mistakes that were made in the pricing of milk.

Richard Curran: And you probably gave out about the price at the time, that it wasn't enough.

Conor Galvin: Yeah. And look, it's never enough in the sense that, you know, and I say that glibly because I grew up in the environment. So, you know, I know the pressures that our milk suppliers are under, but the popularity contest will always come back to bite you because, you know, you can't pay out cash that isn't there. And you also need to retain enough cash in the business to invest. You know, this business, unlike the others that that I've worked for over the years, doesn't do quarterly updates to the stock exchange. We don't do IMS, so we don't, you know, we don't go on roadshows. We're here for the long haul. So we do have to strike a very, very fine balance between what we pay each month, but also what we retain to develop the co-op for the next generation. And I take that really seriously. So when we're setting milk price, we have to set it in the context of both the value we have today, but also the value we want in 20 years’ time.

Richard Curran: Are you a worrier by nature? Do you manage to switch off from the stresses of work?

Conor Galvin: Yeah, I suppose maybe. I worry about certain things, but I don't worry about many things, I worry about things that we can control. And I think I'm a great believer in making sure that we're in control of situations. And if we're not trying to figure out how we can get in control. So a good example would have been energy costs last Spring around how do we get ahead of the challenges that that creates for us? And the reality of a lot of it is that you need to bring certainty to situations because if you can't, then that's where the worry comes in. But worrying is wasted energy, I think I far prefer to pour the energy into doing something that's going to bring more certainty to whatever the problem is.

Richard Curran: So if there was something going to keep you awake at night, what might that be?

Conor Galvin: There's very little that keeps me awake at night, Richard, because the days are so long, if I'm honest. But, you know, I think the thing that keeps me awake at night right now is, you know, where will the business be in ten years’ time? And you know, what's the output of the business and how has it grown? You know, I think we find ourselves at a crossroads from a food production point of view because we have a population in Ireland which is small in the global sense. But, you know, we have a global population that needs to be fed. And we're at the coalface of producing that food. And it's taken quite seriously. And how do we continue to produce that food in a sustainable way, I think is really the question for our generation and the one that we're working hard on. And it's probably one that there's some answers. There's not all the answers, but there's enough material to get on and work on it. So I think rather than worrying about it, we have to take action. And probably not all those actions will have the effect we expect it, but we need to really push on and make sure that we start on the journey.

Richard Curran: So when it comes to food production, if Ireland really goes after tackling climate change and emissions targets and if that means not continuing to expand dairy production, et cetera. If other countries all took the same action, are you saying then that there's a question of there's a gap, you know, where is the food going to come from globally?

Conor Galvin: Yeah, I think there's you know, there's probably an existential question here around where does our food come from? And in Ireland, we have a, you know, a very strong heritage of producing food. And, you know, that's demonstrated by the fact that probably 90% of all the product that's produced in the country is exported. And there's a lot of citizens around the world that are benefiting from that. You know, the reality is that if we stop producing it, it has to be produced somewhere else. We have a reasonably low carbon footprint for a lot of the produce, the food that's produced in Ireland.

Richard Curran: Or can we produce it in a way that is sustainable? Is that realistic?

Conor Galvin: Well, I think we can certainly do better. And there's a lot of the technologies that are starting to emerge, you know, in relation to genetics. The genetics of animals, for example, is a very good example of where, you know, we can have animals that are more efficiently producing food. We can also have systems on farm that are more efficient in relation to greenhouse gas production and also water quality. We can also, you know, look at our processing plants and we have a decarbonisation strategy now in relation to the processing of milk. But, this will require a concerted action plan over the next decade to gradually reduce the impact that the industry has all the way from the farm forward at the same time as continuing to produce the food.

Richard Curran: Now there are a number of questions that I ask all of our guests on this podcast. You might call it the Quickfire round, and often they'll give a very quick insight into the thinking of a CEO and I'll throw them at you anyway here Conor. The first one is what CEO or entrepreneur do you most admire and why?

Conor Galvin: Yeah, this is a great question because, you know, I've met a lot of leaders over the years that have had an influence on where I find myself today. But I think the one person above all others who I admire and still admire to this day is a lady called Alison Kirkby. And Alison was my first finance director in Procter and Gamble when I joined many, many years ago. And Alison is currently the CEO of Telia, which is a Swedish telecoms company. Well, I suppose a Nordic telecoms company at this stage, have significant expansion plans.

Richard Curran: They used to have a stake in Eircom going back.

Conor Galvin: Correct. Yeah. And a business. You know, has ruled the waves of the telecoms cycles. But Alison is somebody who I suppose, first of all, as a person is really relatable and really direct, really honest. But also sees the potential in people, you know. And that was something that, you know, I've retained contact with Alison and I've had chats with her since I was appointed. And as somebody that, you know, is inspirational, but also is a real powerhouse of leadership. And, you know, I always sometimes ask myself, what would Alison do? Because, you know, she's somebody that you could see a lot of the traits of a really good leader in.

Richard Curran: She ended up being a bit of a guru.

Conor Galvin: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I think there's probably a lot more of them out there. But, you know, I think for me, she was the first one who believed, first of all, that a scientist could become a finance manager in Procter and Gamble. But also is just a hell of a nice person.

Richard Curran: Your favourite book or film?

Conor Galvin: Yeah, my favourite book or film. I mean, I'm a real sucker for pulp, first of all. So, you know, I'd read any sort of probably murder mystery caper or in particularly the American pulp that you, you know, you read in a day or two. But a couple of other things came to mind for this question. First of all, the short classics, the likes of Animal Farm, I think you can't beat something that has a little bit of a tale to it and a caper, but also there's a lesson at the end. And so I think Animal Farm is something that stands out to me as a real study in how societies can work or not work depending on who's in charge. And the other book, which I was just reminded of, which my kids liked probably for the pictures as much as the words, is a book called The Boy, the Mole, the Fox, and the Horse. And it's really a book about looking after others. And I think sometimes, you know, in the cut and thrust of business, we don't look after ourselves or those around us enough. And sometimes children show us the way. And it's a very simple kids book, beautiful illustrations, but it has a really strong story to it.

Richard Curran:  And a clear message... Do you have a mantra in business, something that guides you?

Conor Galvin: Yeah, I think people are that work for me are probably tired of me hearing me or hearing me say do a small number of things well, and then once you've done them, do another small amount of number of things well, because sometimes we can get swept along by long lists of things we think are important and not do anything to the quality, it should be done. So I'm a great believer in having a short list of important things and doing them before you move on to the next list.

Richard Curran: When you're finished this job, what would you like people to say about what you achieved and how you did it?

Conor Galvin: Yeah, I think Dairygold is a real you know, it's a business for the generation that is relying on it today, but it's also a business for the future, you know, and I would hope that, you know, when I'm finished in Dairygold and our milk suppliers and our shareholders will look back and say that, first of all, I made a difference to the prospects of the company, but also I brought it on the next phase of development. You know, we can see the last phase is of milk expansion and that was a huge growth in the business. The next growth will be probably non-milk and will be value expansion. So I would hope that you know we can look back and say the value of the business expanded significantly during the time that I was in charge.

Richard Curran: What would you say is your biggest mistake or regret?

Conor Galvin: Yeah, as I said to you, I don't really do regrets or worry in terms of looking back and saying I should have done things differently. You know, there's probably few things that that I rationalize and say that they were big mistakes. The only thing I would advise anybody out there who is filling out a CAO form is go back and check it, because when I filled mine out, I probably could have done a better job in terms of the order I put certain things in, but I'd never look back and say that, you know, it's an issue because you have a whole life ahead of you. And I think look forward than look back.

Richard Curran: And what piece of advice would you give to a CEO or a leader starting out?

Conor Galvin: Um, advice for a CEO. I mean, I think the first thing is follow your gut. You know, if you if you're appointed as a CEO, you have a lot of experiences which somebody somewhere feels there's value in. So lean back on those experiences and follow your gut. But also you have to believe in things. I think you have to believe in certain things that are going to guide you through the good times and the bad. And you need those things to be able to lean back on when there seems like there's no hope or certainly less hope. And I think you've got to believe in things. And the other thing I think is people. You really have to believe people will deliver the change. You can buy all the machines or computers or buildings that you want. Ultimately, it's people that will make a difference. And if you've got good people you trust and you let them get on and do their job, then you know, you'll get the results.

Richard Curran: Very sound advice, Conor. It's been a fascinating career journey for you. You've clearly lots of plans for the years ahead at Dairygold while also sticking to the co-op identity into the future. Conor Galvin, thank you very much for joining us today. We hope you're enjoying this EY podcast CEO Outlook series. Remember, you can catch previous interviews we've done with CEOs like David McRedmond of An Post, Tony Smurfit of Smurfit Kappa Group, Imelda Hurley of Coillte and Steve Cutler of Icon. Until the next time, thanks for listening.

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