Podcast transcript: How technology is shaping the modern workplace
31 min approx | 29 September 2021
Susannah Streeter
This is the EY and Microsoft Tech Directions podcast technology and the modern workplace. I'm your host, Susannah Streeter. The pandemic brought about a seismic shift in the way we work, and the tremors are going to be long lasting. Businesses are inventing new hybrid models of work to enable some employees to return to the physical workplace in phases, while others collaborate remotely. But companies are also recognising that there needs to be an urgent focus on staff wellbeing due to an enormous mental shift deep within their talent pools. For some staff working from home has been a flexible benefit, with the headache of the commute eliminated, but for others the solitude has brought feelings of isolation and burnout. So, the challenge is on to design platforms to engage all employees to ensure they're being looked after inspired, encouraged to learn, and develop their knowledge. And that's what we're discussing today, the explosive growth that's underway in the $300 billion market for employee experience platforms. We have two esteemed thought leaders in the business to take us through the challenges and opportunities. But before I introduce them, please remember, conversations during EY podcasts should not be relied upon as accounting, tax, legal investment, or other professional advice. Listeners must consult their own advisors.
But joining me now from Seattle, I'm very pleased to welcome Microsoft's General Manager for Microsoft 365 and Microsoft Viva Product Marketing, Seth Patton. Hello there, Seth. I know you're so in demand. So, it's great to steal some of your time.
Seth Patton
My pleasure, Susannah, thanks for having me.
Streeter
And from California, the principal leading EY's modern workforce tech consulting team, it's Cheryl Dewar. Hello there Cheryl. Thank you so much for being here.
Cheryl Dewar
I'm really enjoying being here. I'm looking forward to this conversation today.
Streeter
Fantastic, so much to talk about. And I'm going to start with Seth because the tone of client conversations really has dramatically accelerated towards this urgent need to design new hybrid models of work. How do you view your own statistic that the vast majority of workers, more than 70% in your survey, don't want to physically return to an office full time?
Patton
Yeah, it's true. While the last 18 months have certainly been hard on everyone, there are certain things that people have gotten used to and I think even for myself, having breakfast with the kids, avoiding rush hour commutes, flexibility, when and where we do our work. And based on our research, employee expectations have really changed for good. So there's no going back to the pre pandemic. 70% of employees want flexible work options, and 80% of leaders in that same survey said that they plan flexible work options. And if they don't, there's a good chance employees are going to go somewhere else. One of the things we saw also as the sweet spot looks like it's around two to three days a week is where employees want to go back to work. So they do want the in-person collaboration as well as the flexibility to work from home.
Streeter
It's really interesting to talk about that sweet spot. Cheryl I want to bring you in, do you think we'll ever go back to how things were pre COVID? Or do you think this sweet spot will stay?
Dewar
I honestly believe COVID has been a catalyst to really inspire a different way of working that people have been thinking about for some time. It just took this global issue to really prove it. So for example, many of the organisations I've been working with have selected specific workforces to never go back. For example, internal and external call centres they've been set up with technology, whereas they never have to return back to a physical space. I even have a client that announced during one of our phone calls after we implemented Teams as well as Service Now for their call centres - ticketing, calling, chatting, collaborating - said he was going to be an operational God because He literally saved the company millions over forecasted years and years. So just to the point Susannah I think that it's never going to return back to the old way, but in a way, I have to say it's actually proven out new ways of working that have been suspected for a while.
Streeter
And to what extent Cheryl do you think that this search for talent will drive the shape of the modern workplace? Do you think companies are going to have to offer flexibility simply to lure in the best candidates?
Dewar
Absolutely. 100%. As a matter of fact, we're seeing that even nationally, people are moving out of cities, they're moving to more remote locations that can make their money stretch farther, so that way they know they can work remotely and talent won't be necessarily located where you thought you could find it before, it might be in another country, it might be in remote Indiana, you never know. But the good news is, is that this remote way of working will help you find the best talent. It just needs to adjust and shift in your thinking of where you think you might find it.
Streeter
So, Seth, in what ways do you think the powerful changes in employee expectations relating to this flexibility and wellbeing, to what extent were they already underway long before COVID-19 hit?
Patton
Yeah, the term employee experience. And the notion that people are our most valuable asset have been around for a while, and I think what's changed is previously it was primarily a priority for the HR team. And what the pandemic has shown us is that people truly are the driver of business success. When we invest in our people and employee experience, we now have plenty of research and data that shows it can have a direct impact on engagement, retention, customer satisfaction and financial success. So what was once an HR only priority is now a C suite, you know, imperative for every business. And every business leader really needs to think about how to create that sustainable performance, not just short-term productivity gains.
Streeter
So in what way can technology really help the employee experience in this new hybrid workplace that we're all facing?
Patton
Yeah, in a hybrid workplace where people are physically apart, feeling disconnected, and need to continue to collaborate to get work done, technology certainly has become more essential than ever. If we just look at Microsoft 365 cloud services alone, today hundreds of millions of people. So hundreds of millions of people every day, are collaborating over 30 billion minutes. And that's double just a year ago. Microsoft Teams in particular has become that default place where hybrid work happens. It's unique because it does bring together chat and calling, meetings and collaboration into one single experience. But while technology like Microsoft Teams has helped us to adapt to hybrid work, there's so much more that we can do to create a great employee experience. And that's why we built Microsoft Viva. With Viva, we're really focused on empowering teams beyond just productivity and collaboration. We want employees to feel engaged to feel connected to their company purpose and mission, to learn and grow and to make an impact regardless of where they work.
Streeter
Absolutely. I mean, it's so important right now, with so many people feeling isolated. Cheryl what other problems our clients telling you about that really need to be addressed urgently?
Dewar
I think we can all empathise that, you know, ultimately, in order to run a business, you're going to have a technology ecosystem that can be very daunting, confusing. We have to learn a lot of processes. And what Viva offers is that you never really have to leave. You can be efficient, you can be collaborative, you can really engage with your not only fellow colleagues, but even personally, but at the end of the day, it really gives you that computing experience that's more effective, efficient, holistic, and frankly, mindful.
Streeter
You talk about this single pane of glass, do you think this Seth will help overcome the issue when these tools are so fragmented?
Patton
Yeah, you know, Cheryl mentioned that the employee experience in most organisations today is just too complicated. Over the years, companies have purchased a bunch of different HR and digital technologies. So think engagement surveys, wellbeing programmes, learning systems, and tools for employee communications. And while the intentions were certainly good, the reality is that these systems were purchased and implemented in sort of fragmented, disconnected ways throughout the organisation, and disconnected from people's day to day work. So this really has led to low utilisation, lost productivity, and a poor employee experience. So our goal, as Cheryl mentioned with Viva is to bring these various points systems together into an integrated experience right within Microsoft Teams and other Office apps so that people have access to the resources and the support that they need, right within the flow of work.
Streeter
Cheryl?
Dewar
Yeah, I think that ultimately, that's exactly what's going to be happening is that the feeling of being overwhelmed that was mentioned earlier, I think comes from two very important places. One is this segmented way of working, so many systems, so many processes that someone has to follow. Now, mind you, before the pandemic, there was the one thing that everybody lost, which is that variable of time. I think what the pandemic did is it securely put us in our offices and didn't put parameters around our workday. So I think the ability to really encourage an employee experience. To be not overwhelmed, but more enriched really does successfully get there through leveraging Viva, but then also personal discipline to know when to stop and start.
Streeter
And in the day to day operating of these new tools, Seth, can you just give me a taste of how it really can help tackle the issue of employee mental health?
Patton
Yeah, it's a great question. We now know from brain research that digital tools and you know, video meetings produce increased fatigue. The good news is that just a 10-minute break every 90 minutes helps sustain productivity and wellbeing throughout the day. So with Microsoft Viva employees get nudges and reminders to take breaks, you know, to stand up, to move around. And Viva also has the option to do a meditation session with partners like headspace, or breathing exercises. In addition, Viva has features for mindfully transitioning from home to work with a virtual commute. None of us maybe missed the virtual commute, but it did serve a purpose. And as well as helping you, as Cheryl mentioned, to protect time and your calendar time for focus time for learning, and really letting you know if you're working after hours more than your work life balance goals.
Streeter
It's really interesting that we're having these nudges integrated into that technology, because it is so important now, isn't it, given that employees may never see that employees officer even may not have even met another colleague in person. How confident are you in ultimately being able to give them what they need, emotionally, but also in terms of sustainable productivity?
Patton
Yeah, I think the first thing to realise is that we can no longer count on a physical office or a campus to bring us all together, or to stay connected or build that social capital, we need to sort of change that definition of our organisation, culture beyond you know, the physical space and instead, think about how can we digitally reimagine the employee experience for people regardless of where they work. A great example here is with Viva connections, it is an employee app that really connects people to their leaders, to their team, and to their company communications and resources. So you can think of it as a gateway to your digital campus, a town hall, an office cooler, water cooler, all within where you work in Microsoft Teams. At Microsoft, our CEO actually has a monthly town hall with 140,000 employees around the world where we joined together to hear what's top of mind, to engage in q&a, using online communities so that we can improve that listening engagement both before the town hall and after the town hall. So you don't have to be on campus or in person to feel like you're part of the conversation and really included in that dialogue.
Streeter
It's really important, isn't it Cheryl? Because no longer can employees everyday have a chat at the tea bar or the water cooler? How else can the right technology be used to try and help employees feel that they fit snugly in a company even if they're working remotely?
Dewar
Well, it is a new chapter in leadership and guidance of employees, isn't it? From that perspective, I think if we're leveraging technology, and what we've learned, certainly through the pandemic, is that jumping just on a quick video chat, checking in, even if it's through text message, as well as giving quick phone calls. But it really does harbour a new time, where leadership is going to have to be able to check in, support, guide and develop their teams through new and different methods. Because like we said at the very beginning, we're never really returning back to that way of working, just popping over the cube wall and saying how are you? We have to virtually figure out how to do that in these new times.
Streeter
Yeah, I mean, it was almost easier, wasn't it when everyone worked remotely? In a way there was a level playing field. But when some people physically can't be at the office, but others can, how can you still be inclusive and create a real hybrid way of working in real time? It's a huge challenge, isn't it?
Dewar
It's going to take new habits for sure. Just to rely on the old ones or the new ones exclusively, I think won't ring the bell. I think we really have to consciously develop, how do we make certain to create these interactions create these team dynamics, having a hybrid way of working. And then again, really focusing on the employee experience. So the onus is really going to have to be to consciously work together to figure out how this is all going to work specifically for your team. Leveraging Microsoft Teams, leveraging video chat leveraging all of these different town halls, we still have quite a bit of fun doing remote happy hours for with her clients. And then it just turned out to be a really good team builder as well with all of the fun games that we play, but it's really going to have to be a new way of working that is a conscious effort in order to get the right outcome.
Streeter
So it's great to know that working from home can enable happy hour. But Seth, how else can remote working be inclusive of all employees?
Patton
Yeah, Cheryl mentioned a number of great things there. It's a real challenge. When I talk to our customers, one of the things that we have found is there are certain technologies that can help here everything from advanced cameras and rich audio to bring focus on the active speaker and audio translation and meeting captions, those nonverbal contexts along with things like reactions and emojis to improve that accessibility and experience for people who aren't in the room. But there are also things that we can do that don't involve this cutting-edge technology. We, for example, have seen a number of things just through meeting etiquette where, for example, creating meeting agendas that are sent in the meetings chat ahead of the meeting, so everyone can prepare and understand what's happening. We, for example, start the team's meeting, as soon as the first person enters the physical room. So people online can participate in that informal conversations that happen often, prior to the meeting started where a lot of that social capital and relationship building happens. And then everybody joins Teams on you know their laptop so people can see your video, you can participate in the chat and raise your hand to speak just like the online participants.
Streeter
That's great to hear. But also there are problems as far as security is concerned, because working remotely does present real security issues. And how can the right technology help here Cheryl?
Dewar
Ultimately, the world did a really amazing job of helping people work remotely. Even just as a little fun footnote, I've had some clients bring physical desktops into employee trunks and help them set them up at home. So everyone did a fantastic job. But when it came to security, it wasn't by the wayside, but it was certainly something that was running in parallel as we all learn to work remotely, but security is a very big deal. From a technology perspective, Microsoft has an incredible security profile with their licencing, ie five compliance centre, etc. That helps to really ensure that there is a good security profile at the head of all of this remote working and all of these collaborative tool sets. Right now it is a spike in conversations across clients all around the globe, where we're all visiting. There's security profiles and decisions that they have to take and make with regard to how they've configured their systems, especially between the business legal, as well as cybersecurity. But it is something that is top of mind, it is something that is definitely doable. And companies around the globe are addressing it.
Streeter
But the artificial intelligence that comes along with this technology is very powerful. And there are concerns about privacy aren't there. Seth how do you reassure employees that their data is going to be safeguarded?
Patton
Yeah, you're right, Susannah, the AI is extremely powerful in terms of helping people find information, finding, you know, experts from around your organisation, and giving you more personalised experience. So having that context of knowing your preferences and work patterns, and helping you be more productive, so be more productive, whether that's creating a document or delivering a presentation, or even providing you recommendations to be a better manager. But you're right that with this power comes concerns about privacy. At Microsoft, we believe privacy is a human right, we've decided to make privacy a top priority and a promise to our customers. And this means that we build privacy into everything that we do. So for example, with Viva, your personal insights are only available to you, your manager and leader insights are de identified. They're aggregated and only available to managers with more than nine employees.
Streeter
That's really interesting to hear. Because Cheryl trust really is an important word in this new world, isn't it? How else do you think you can strike a balance so employees don't think that big brother is constantly watching them?
Dewar
So I think at the end of the day, in order for employees to feel secure and trusting of where they're working, I think it has to be positioned of the information and data and security surrounding them, and the information being collected is actually being designed for their benefits. It's really one of those things where to show employees, am I collecting data to just pay attention to what you're doing? No, that's not the case. I'm paying attention to the data to make sure that you're successful, you're collaborative, and that ultimately, we're being as effective, efficient, and informing each other as much as possible. So back to the conversation of how do we lead our teams? How do we do it in a new way, in a different way, in a hybrid way? It's this information and data that will inform us.
Streeter
But Seth, is it also possible to formally embed these types of balanced questions within an IT system to really reassure employees that their privacy is going to be upheld? At least as basic guardrails are concerned?
Patton
Yeah, I do think there's definitely a role in designing the technology so that employees feel more safe, and whether that's having the explanation of privacy as a part of their day to day flow of work. But also, as I mentioned before, we believe that privacy is a human right, so we can tell employees, that we want to provide them insights, to help them improve productivity and wellbeing. But we're not going to allow customers to use that data to spy on their employees. And it's up to the employee if they want to view their personal insights and take actions to improve productivity and wellbeing but that's not visible to their manager or to their organisation. I just want to look at the broader picture.
Streeter
Now, Cheryl, as we as we assess the landscape of the modern workplace that's being developed, do you think we're on a journey away from a traditional hierarchical organisational structure to something which is much flatter? And what types of opportunities does this present?
Dewar
I can't cheer for that more. Yes, the hierarchical way of working it, frankly, is no longer effective or efficient. Now, you know, are there guides? Are there coaches? Are there career journeys that bring you to different places? Absolutely. Is there necessarily an effective pecking order? I would say that that's not necessarily true any longer. It's, it is a much flatter organisation I'm seeing it across industries. And at the end of the day, through not only technology, it's also the process of what we need to get done, that everyone has a shared decision in effectively producing work or coming to a significant outcome. I definitely believe that the future organisation is flat.
Streeter
Interesting, how all of this is developing. Do you think it's pushing leaders into areas that they may not have had to contend with before? And it's getting pretty complex very quickly. So where is the best place to start?
Patton
Yeah, you're right. This is it's new for all of us. And I don't think anybody really has all the answers, I think maybe my advice would be to really take a growth mindset and approach to learning and trying new things, and then being flexible to adapt as new patterns and best practices emerge. I totally agree with Cheryl, that the definition even of the organisation as we know, it is changing. And as increasingly people don't think about their careers as going to one company and you have this really interesting organisational dynamics where people are coming and going. And that notion of onboarding and developing people that are coming in based on their skills for different projects, both within an organisation and through vendors and consultants, is really changing the way we think about leading and organising for business results. I think about even you know, as Microsoft, we've started transitioning back to work, we're designing and adapting our own hybrid workplace, you know, customers often ask us for best practices, we created this hybrid work flexibility guide. And initially, we wrote it for our own managers and employees. There's a version that is for more business leaders, and then one more employees, but we've now published it so that other organisations and leaders can benefit from it. And I know some of our customers are taking it and then customising it, tailoring it for their own organisations. And so I just wanted to call it out as a resource. If people are interested, they can find it on the Microsoft Work Lab.
Streeter
Really useful to know that there are guides available and information that can be accessed, but Cheryl all this can be quite daunting for leaders. So how should companies kick off this process of change? What other advice can you share about your experience of this?
Dewar
So what I've been doing not only personally, but with other clients is really walking leaders through what is that new way of working and what does that have happened to me and you do in frankly, it does need to be broken down function by function, right, because it all changes a bit like the new way of performing HR tasks, the new way of, frankly, doing financial quarter close, all change. And really what it is not just taking the employee through this new way of working, whether it be more automated now than it was before, but it's taking the leader through what does this new organisation look like? What does that new outcome need to be? And frankly, taking a slow down to speed up type look at it. You need to step back, take a look, what does that happen to me? What does that mean for your behaviours? What does that mean for your team, and then ultimately start to implement that change. I've seen organisations, if you come at it from the top down, or from being too close to it, invariably, you'll find the gaps. But I would say to slow down to speed up, that's where you're going to actually find the way of working to be most effective.
Streeter
And we started this podcast by saying that the workplace revolution is underway that's at least as big as last year shift to working from home due to the pandemic. But do you think the system solutions you're coming up with are in themselves game changes?
Dewar
I think so. To be honest, I mean, the amount that we've automated the amount that we've started to put into leveraging data and AI in the partnership, to really inform the ways that we happen to work, I think, are frankly, truly inspired, and catalysts for the different way of working tomorrow. Are they perfect? No. Will we stop innovating? No. But I think that some of the things that have been come up with over the past year, to replace or even innovate new ways of working in order to compensate for the fact that we're no longer in the physical workspace together, I think are outstanding, and are really going to permanently change the way we work, I bring up something as simple as a financial quarter close. But we have to understand in many companies that was like a physical Excel document that actually got emailed and then physically signed off on about a year ago. So now it's completely automated. And it's very exciting to see the new ways of working and in the ways that we don't assume but it's definitely been inspired.
Streeter
But as you say, it's constantly evolving, we are coming to the end of our time. And both of you, though, do sit at the cutting edge of change as we've been hearing, not just technological but behavioural change, as well. So just as a final question, I'd like to ask you, how do you see the world evolving over the next five to 10 years? Seth, can you look into your crystal ball?
Patton
Sure Susannah. That is a very long time. So who knows exactly what the future is going to look like. But I do think of that a couple of themes are important. So one theme is really putting people first and realising that it's human ingenuity that sets an organisation or a business apart from its competition. And related to this, we talk a lot about AI. And it can be such a critical tool to help people realise their potential. And so I'm optimistic that instead of replacing jobs, AI will help bring everyone along to benefit and be included in that next generation of jobs. And that digital skilling and social learning will change how organisations attract, develop and retain employees. And it can, as I mentioned, change the very definition of organisations as a more fluid set of employees, contractors and vendors that come and go together with the right skills at the right time. Interesting that fluidity.
Streeter
Thank you and Cheryl, how do you see the landscape changing?
Susannah, I just have to jump on Seth's magic ability to see into the future. It's going to be an employee market. And it never really truly has. But now it is employee choice employee experience are going to be the theme of the day. Before you know it was companies driving and dictating. Well, this is where you work. This is what you're going to be doing. This is what you're going to be having this is where you're going to be living. And frankly, that is not the case anymore. Employees can go ahead and live in the middle of North Dakota or Leeds if they want to. They can live anywhere they choose, they can work when and where they choose. And I think employee choice is also giving them the fact to expand their career options and models. I think giving them the chance to really do and be and become whatever they want. So I think the future is the employee and I'm excited to see it and inspire it and help shape it.
Cheryl Dewar is leading EY's modern workforce tech consulting team. Thank you and also thank you to Seth Patton, Microsoft's General Manager for Microsoft 365 and Microsoft Viva Product Marketing. It's been such a pleasure to talk to you both on the podcast about the time space continuum and how the workplace is evolving in this new hybrid world.
Dewar
Thank you very much.
Patton
Thank you, Susannah. Thanks for having me.
Streeter
For more information, visit ey.com/microsoft. A quick note from the attorneys. The views of third parties that out in this podcast are not necessarily the views of the global EY organisation, nor its member firms. Moreover, they should be seen in the context of the time in which they were made. I'm Susannah Streeter I hope you'll join us again for the next edition of the EY and Microsoft Tech Directions podcast. EY and Microsoft, your digital world, realised.
